Episode 59: The Expat Toolkit: Singapore Visas: What You Need to Know Part I

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Paula: Hello and welcome back to Truly Expat Podcast. My name is Paula and together with Rachel we dive into the important topics that matter to you, this time we're joined once again by Jennifer Yarbrough, the Managing Director and Founder of White Glove Helper Services.

Paula: Now if you listened to our previous episode with Jennifer, you'll know she's an expert in helping families find trusted domestic helpers here in Singapore. But today, we're shifting gears a little and diving into a topic that is really important to many employers here, employment. Passes. Or visas. We'll be chatting about the ins and outs of employment visas in Singapore, what employers need to know, and how Jennifer's agency helps guide people through the often complex process.

Paula: So whether you're hiring a helper for the first time, or just looking for more clarity on the visa process, Jennifer is the perfect person to ask. So welcome back, Jennifer. that's

Jen: Thank you. That's a wonderful introduction. I appreciate

Paula: so good to have you

Rachel: good to [00:01:00] have you here. We love having you back.

Jen: Thank you.

Jen: It's nice to be here.

Paula: So, I mean, we, I know we delved into the world of, um, employment, employing helpers. Um, do you think you could explain what the type of different visas is this time?

Jen: Sure, so the main way that, that most expats come into Singapore, um, would be on an employment pass and they usually get an employment pass for themselves and dependent passes for their kids. But there's also other iterations. There's one passes, um, there's a personalized employment pass and there's also an S pass that people can come in and work on for expats.

Paula: Okay, I, okay, so I, I'm thinking there's just an employment pass, one pass and that's it, right?

Rachel: A personalised employment pass, is that different than the normal pass, or personalised?

Jen: Well, it's different because the employment pass is tied to a company, but the personalized [00:02:00] employment pass, a PEP, is tied to the individual.

Jen: So you can, you can more easily go from one company to another. Um, you don't have The other company doesn't have to apply for you because you've already been approved to have the personalized employment pass.

Rachel: Oh, how interesting. And how do you go about getting one of those?

Jen: You just apply for it as an individual.

Jen: Individuals apply for their own PEP

Rachel: the MOM website.

Paula: So would you do that if you were living in Singapore or do you do that if you're living abroad and wanting to be employed in Singapore? Because you still need to be sponsored or you still need to get, have a job to be able to Or my role.

Jen: No, you don't. You can do it from abroad, and a lot of people do that.

Jen: They go ahead and do the application. They have a minimum requirement, which I think is 25, 000. Um, and you have to show that you've been making that much money previously in your job. So they're going to ask you to upload your, um, Your employment [00:03:00] contract from before or your salary receipts or whatever To show that you can earn that kind of money and then they'll approve you to come in Monthly, yes

Paula: Um,

Jen: Yeah, or if you're currently in Singapore and you're working on an employment pass you can do a PEP on your own

Paula: Oh, can you? Yeah. A little bit like the one pass.

Jen: Exactly. Yeah

Paula: And so, if I was to, so, okay, so I don't need a job. So I'm abroad, right? And I'm going, I really want to live in Singapore. I can prove that I earned the certain, that certain amount of money. Do I need to have proof that I've been interviewing?

Jen: No.

Paula: does that work?

Jen: No, um, if you're trying to do the Personalized Employment Pass, then your plan is to come into Singapore and find a job somewhere. Okay. So, there. They're preemptively saying, yes, you're very qualified, you can come in and you can work. And then you come, you land in Singapore, and you go find yourself a job.

Jen: When you find a job, you report to MOM, who [00:04:00] you've been working for. And they give you about a six month leeway to find, to find a job. If you go over that six months, then they might cancel your pass. But they, they really want you to, you know, get out there and find a job.

Paula: job.

Rachel: And what kind of, Like, I know with a one pass you, a dependent pass holder can actually get an LOC. Is there any effect for the dependents on a PEP?

Jen: No, they don't get that benefit. That LOC is only for OnePass holders. So the OnePass holders need to make at least 30, 000 a year. And, um, It's a little bit different because they're not tied to one job, like the PEP and the employment pass. You can only work for one company, but a one pass holder can, they can work for a job during the day and they can start their own business on the side.

Jen: It's really meant for people who are, you know, more like. Not necessarily [00:05:00] entrepreneurs, but, you know, people that want to have their eggs in many different baskets and, you know, maybe they want to advise this company and work for this company and get, you know, paid by both. Whereas the employment pass restricts you to just working for the one company.

Rachel: Oh, that's really interesting. So you could perhaps be like a, a board member for like several different companies. That's how you would, you would do it. And then, yeah. And then the total sum of that should, make 

Jen: thirty. Thirty for the One Pass. And you have to have already been earning it before you can get it.

Rachel: Uh, okay. Oh, okay. Um,

Jen: They do make some exceptions. They'll give one passes to people that make less that if they're special talents in their industry. So, you know, like music celebrities or actors or people like that can come in.

Rachel: Um,

Jen: I had I know of a dancer who applied that did not get the, um, one pass. So, it, it just depends.[00:06:00]

Jen: Like they, what I know that they did is they sent his information to the, um, organization that evaluates that particular art. And they'll come back and say if this is a person with exceptional talent that you should give a one pass to or not.

Paula: Oh wow. It's not quite selective.

Jen: They're pretty selective about it, especially because they're, they're not sticking to that 30, 000.

Jen: What they really want is people making 30, 000 or more because then you can kind of self sufficiently, you know, take care of yourself here in Singapore. So I think that's why they've got that 30, 000 limit. But yeah, they'll give it to, you know, special stars if, if they're making less money than that.

Paula: And you said LOC. What is LOC and what does it stand for?

Jen: So the LOC, everything's an acronym here. The LOC is a letter of consent and a letter of consent is what your [00:07:00] dependent pass holders can use to work. In Singapore, and with the one pass, the LOC is only applicable to your spouse, not your children. So if you have a 20 year old child, for example, they can't get an LOC to work.

Jen: Okay. But your, um, your spouse can.

Paula: Would they be on a student pass then, if they were still living here at 20? I guess if most of the PRs, but

Jen: Well, they can, a dependent pass holder can stay until they're 21, but on their 21st birthday, their pass gets cancelled. Wow. Yeah.

Paula: Okay. So they can't.

Paula: So if you were here on a dependent pass as a child and you're 20 and you're a student, can you work?

Jen: Um, yes. You can? Yes, you can. There's, there's other ways to work, um, when you're on a dependent pass. So, for example, I hired a student to work for my company, um, and she was,

Rachel: 20

Jen: And she was on a, um, [00:08:00] on a dependent pass from her dad. And she worked for me until her 21st birthday, but then she had to go back.

Rachel: Aww, that's sad.

Jen: But she was great, too.

Jen: But now she's back, she got her own student pass to go to university here. So, but she can't work on a student pass.

Paula: Oh, you can't.

Rachel: Oh, I thought that they could, like, do part time work or something.

Jen: Some of them Some of them can. It depends on the university. And she's not going to a university that has permission for their students to work.

Jen: So, yeah. Some of them can. Like, if you're at the really big universities, I think their students can get permission. In the U.

Rachel: or USS?

Jen: Yeah, in the U. S. Or just U. S.

Rachel: S S,

Jen: can't remember what the name of her university is, but it didn't give her permission to work.

Rachel: so

Jen: That was unfortunate.

Paula: And so, if you have to do an internship as part of your degree, that's not classed as? Part of it, is it? Or am I just complicating life?

Rachel: things? You

Jen: do have to get [00:09:00] permission to be an intern here. And there's an application process. I don't know very much about it because I don't think it's, it's not processed through the MOM system. It's a different type of And different type of pass with, I think it's with ICA.

Paula: Ah, okay.

Jen: Yeah.

Rachel: Okay,

Paula: makes, yeah. Because I know that with students, it also depends on what country you come from. There's a whole lot of

Jen: requirements, right? Yeah. I also know of a student that came, who was from the U. S., who came on a work holiday visa, and she was able to work for, I don't know, like six or nine months or something on that visa.

Paula: is what we were talking about the other day, because someone sent to me, because I've got Children under the age of 30. So in Australia, I think Australia and New Zealand was it? That if you're under 30, you can have a working visa for a year, but you can work for six months and be here for a year.

Paula: Something like that.

Jen: It was something like that. Yeah.

Rachel: Please don't quote me on that. But most other,

Jen: in case.

Paula: Just in case.

Rachel: some other countries aren't able to. No. Right. Because that's [00:10:00] what we're looking at. Yeah. Exactly. But

Paula: But I do know Australia and New Zealand just because that's what was sent to us. Um, but it's in, I mean, again, it's, it's, it's, there's so many different rules for different countries. So it's not, not black and white, right?

Paula: It's a little bit,

Jen: Yeah. You've got to check

Paula: where you're coming from and all the requirements of that.

Jen: Yeah. MOM publishes all the details online, so you can look it up on.

Rachel: gov.

Jen: G O V dot S G, and they have all of the, the ins and outs of all of these different passes. Yeah, so I don't memorize all the numbers exactly, I know I should,

Rachel: should.

Rachel: No, because they keep changing, don't they? And they change them all the

Paula: time.

Paula: As

Rachel: soon

Jen: I know what the number is, then, you know, I look again, I'm like, Oh, they changed that. So I just look it up all the time. I just use them as my brain because that's, yeah,

Rachel: Yeah.

Jen: where they keep the information.

Paula: Can you explain the eligibility criteria for, like, an S pass?

Jen: Um,

Paula: So what is an S [00:11:00] pass, actually?

Jen: Yeah. So the, the S pass is like a lower level of employment pass. So the employment pass is meant for what they call PMETs. Um, which I had to look this up

Paula: I'm like, what's that?

Jen: because it's, you know, alphabet city. Um, the PMETs are like professionals, managers, executives, executives, and some kind of.

Jen: technologists or something like that and the S Pass is meant for, um, associate level. So instead of like the managers and the bosses, it's meant for people that are one level down and, um, that starts with a salary of 3, 300 since September 1st and goes upwards and, um, Yeah, so it has the same kind of requirements as an employment pass.

Jen: So they prefer people with a college degree. Um, the company has to qualify. to hire [00:12:00] an S Pass just like they would to hire somebody on an employment pass. Um, and they have quotas for S Passes. They do not have quotas for employment passes. There are limits. Or, if there are quotas, MOM doesn't share what the quota is.

Jen: We don't know what they are. But, um, S Passes do have a published quota and You can get an employment agency to look up your quota and see how many S passes or work permits that you're eligible to hire. And typically, what the ratio is, is 10 to 1. So if you hire 10 locals and PRs, then you can hire 1 S pass.

Jen: So if you have 20 local and PR employees, you can hire 2.

Paula: Ah, okay, I got you. But, so if someone's on a one pass, they don't qualify, they're not part of that quota? Right. Okay, that's good. Not

Jen: Yeah. So your foreigners don't count. Your PRs count as locals for this particular calculation, but other calculations they count them as [00:13:00] foreigners.

Jen: So you have to know which,

Rachel: which

Jen: calculation you're doing. Yeah.

Rachel: Oh, wow, that's just so convoluted, right? Like, uh, you know all the different criteria for each pass. It's like Yeah, and then the

Jen: Yeah, and then the other thing to note is that S Pass, companies that hire an S Pass holder have to pay a levy, just like when you hire a helper, you have to pay a levy.

Jen: Um, S, companies that hire S Pass holders have to pay a levy for each one. And if you don't pay your levy, you're going to get their passes canceled. So, and And the M. O. M. can be very archaic in the way that they notify companies about this. So they don't send an email, they don't give you a phone call, they just send you a letter to your, you know, registered address, which might not even be where you're doing your business.

Jen: Yeah, so I've known of companies that have had issues before where they didn't realize they were supposed to be paying [00:14:00] this levy and then their pass holder got cancelled. Oh no. I've

Rachel: actually, I've actually been with somebody who that, that had happened, um, and she had to renew her visa or something. And then we were in Malaysia, we were just crossing the border and she couldn't.

Rachel: Was it she couldn't get back in or she couldn't get out and that, that is what happened. The company didn't know that they had to pay this levy. So her pass was not validated to her, to her passport and she couldn't. Like she had to sort it out, and like finally she got through, but it was a real nightmare, so it's interesting that that's quite.

Jen: and they used to do that with helpers too.

Jen: So if you were hiring a helper and you didn't pay your levy, they didn't send you an email and they didn't give you a phone call. So I, I've had employers that never checked. And forgot about it once they hired the helper, didn't set up their gyro, [00:15:00] and then, um, suddenly their helper's pass gets canceled.

Jen: And the way they found out was because the insurance company sent them a notice saying, We've canceled your insurance policy because the helper's pass is canceled. And they were like, What? Oh my gosh. Yeah, and then they Oh

Paula: my

Rachel: gosh.

Jen: I had somebody tell me one time, well we didn't even know we had a mailbox to check here.

Jen: Okay, you probably passed through those on the way to the elevator.

Rachel: I have to admit,

Paula: admit, I'm a bit guilty of that. I didn't

Jen: where my

Paula: mailbox was until my help or when away on all day.

Rachel: day.

Paula: know where it is now, so it's all good. Yeah, but

Jen: the the issue is that Um, you're not going to get notified in the way that you expect.

Jen: No. So, if, if you're a company and you're hiring people on S passes, make sure you check wherever the company mail is going because MOM sends notices there. But they don't

Paula: don't ask for a levy on an EP though?

Jen: No. Okay. Not on an EP. . Not on a PEP and not on the one pass.

Paula: PEP. Okay. What is a PEP?

Rachel: the Personalised Employment

Paula: Pass. Oh, of

Jen: Oh, of course. We were [00:16:00] talking about course. Of course. See, it's very confusing.

Paula: Yeah. That's right. Of course. Of course.

Jen: And

Paula: not on a student pass? No. Because the student would be paying their own, right?

Jen: I don't know. 'cause that's an ICA one. Oh,

Paula: okay. Of course.

Jen: Yeah.

Paula: Are there any specific restrictions or conditions for holders of dependent passes? Because you did say that, um, if you're a dependent pass of a one pass holder, you could get an LOC, right? And you can work that way. But what about if you're a dependent pass on an EP or an SEP?

Jen: Um, you cannot work on an LOC if you're A DP holder of an EP or an S Pass. You're not allowed to work. But what you can do is you can start your own company.

Jen: And if you're a DP holder and you start your own company, then MOM will give you an LOC for your own company so you can work for your own business. And [00:17:00] so that's, that's how a lot of people are able to run small businesses. You know, here in Singapore that are dependent pass holders and the small businesses don't necessarily make a lot of money the first year that they're open, you know, it takes a while to get everything started.

Jen: So, um, yeah, they give you a one year LOC and by nine months you need to hire a local person and they need to be paid what the local qualifying salary is, which I think right now is 1650 because they just changed it. I would look it up to be sure. Um, yeah, so you have to start paying somebody that much a month

Paula: Yep.

Rachel: Um,

Jen: in order to get your LLC renewed.

Rachel: Does it matter how many hours the person works?

Jen: No.

Rachel: So, you could get somebody, because that, to get somebody quite skilled, like say if you wanted to boost your social media or something like that for your company, you can probably 10 hours a month or [00:18:00] something like that.

Jen: Right. I

Rachel: that's, that's quite high per hour, but like, you know, like you don't have to get somebody's working 40 hours a week or something like that because sometimes small companies don't need that

Jen: Yeah, it could be part time. It could be that you maybe hire a part time accountant to come in and do some accounting work for you or, um, maybe a part time salesperson, you know, if you get better. I think that's what it's meant for.

Jen: But they want to show that you're not just opening the business. And faffing about not really doing anything. So after the first year, you need to be able to pay, have enough revenue and be able to pay so that you can keep the business going. So you can pay, um, a local person to work. So they want you to be able to boost the economy.

Jen: Really is Yes. Is what the purpose is.

Paula: Does it have to be like a local Singaporean or can be somebody on a PR?

Rachel: It can

Jen: be a local Singaporean or a pr.

Paula: Oh, it can be a PR. Okay. That's

Rachel: Yeah, [00:19:00] that's helpful. Um, yeah, because then you could just employ them for three months or if they work out, you know, like longer.

Jen: but

Rachel: It's just the maximum of three months and then how long does that, do you have to do it every year or is they, do they just?

Jen: I think the idea with MOM is that you hire them three months before at least by three months before the end of your first year, but you keep them employed the whole time. I don't think you're really allowed to let them go at 12 months and then hire them again three months before you do your your renewal.

Jen: So I think they want you to

Paula: to

Jen: hire them yeah, as a permanent employee, not, not just to play games with the system. Yeah.

Rachel: Um, because I had a friend who, she did it, um, she was, she employed somebody, I don't know if we can talk about this, but anyway, uh, you'll just tell me, uh, so she hired somebody [00:20:00] for three months.

Rachel: And they renewed her LOC for three years. And she didn't have to employ anybody again. But I don't know if that has changed.

Jen: I think MOM would not like that scenario. I think MOM would not like that scenario. Their intention is you hire somebody because what that's doing is hiring somebody to get your renewal and then

Paula: poor person doesn't have a

Jen: and that's not really the intention the intention with MOM is that You're contributing to the economy by hiring another person.

Jen: You're employing somebody locally. So I think MOM would want you to continue employing that person for the next three years. So what happens when your three years is up after that? Would they renew you? I don't know.

Rachel: They may

Paula: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, after

Jen: They're gonna look at

Rachel: if you

Jen: I

Rachel: if you're paying your taxes, [00:21:00] aren't you? And you're keeping

Jen: to the the iris, but you're not adding to the workforce.

Jen: And what they really want is more. The reason they put this in place is because they want people who are, you know, they're Singaporeans that need jobs and they have plenty of part time workers, people that just want a little bit of work, you know, maybe, um, Like, I have a part time employee, for example, and she has kids that come home at 1 o'clock, so she works for me in the morning, and she leaves at 12.

Jen: 30, and she goes and meets the kids, and, you know, she's working like 20 hours a week or something. That's a perfect scenario. Yeah.

Paula: Okay. That, yeah.

Jen: expats that, you know, want a part time job and be able to meet their kids. Locals have that same need. Yeah.

Rachel: Oh, for sure. Yeah, definitely. No, definitely not. Um, thing I just, I just think about it for sometimes a [00:22:00]dependent worker, um.

Rachel: Um, doesn't know if their business idea is going to float in one year and that is kind of like what you want to do is, obviously you do want to help the economy, it'd be great if your business flourishes, but sometimes business don't flourish for like. One, two, three years, you know, and so it takes, it's a long slog Especially if you've never done social media before or you've ever done like sales or anything like that And you've got a great idea.

Rachel: It takes, it can be a slow burn, you know, so I guess that's, that's my

Jen: Opinion

Rachel: like, you know, yeah, my worry about starting an LOC is like Am I going to be able to pay this person? Am I going to pay myself? What's the point if I'm only paying that person and not myself? You know, like, how, yeah. And I can understand it from MOM's point of view but I also can understand that.

Paula: Lots of people don't want to do it because of that risk.

Rachel: I think

Paula: also, um, [00:23:00] I get from the MOM because I think they're trying to get people to really work and hustle that business and ensure that there's going to be something, there's a risk there as opposed to just anybody applying, then they'd be having lots of people there and then it'd be lots of businesses that would just be going with the flow, right?

Jen: And they don't want all these passes out there that are underutilized. Because they have, I'm sure, internally, even though they're not going to tell anybody what the number is, I'm sure they have a limit to how many they'll grant. And they don't want to grant LOCs to people that aren't actually hustling and using them properly.

Jen: So, they just won't renew them. If you can't meet those requirements, then maybe your idea wasn't the right one. Yeah.

Paula: yeah.

Jen: kind of harsh, but I think that's the way they think.

Paula: because, I mean, you've got such a small country,

Jen: Yeah.

Paula: so many people here. You know, so I guess there needs to be some sort of line in the sand to say this is that this, these are the boundaries that we [00:24:00] need to form.

Jen: But yeah.

Rachel: And

Jen: it's

Paula: interesting. I mean, I guess because a lot of, a lot of, um, accompanying partners don't realize that they can't work here until they get here. Yeah. Because it never used to be like that, right?

Jen: Yeah, this changed during COVID. Pre COVID, anybody that was on a dependent pass could get an LOC to work.

Jen: And there wasn't any kind of requirement to hire somebody else. It was just You could automatically get an LOC to work. I did it when we first arrived here, or the second time we came. I was working at Stanford, you know, in their music department. And I was working on an LOC. Oh, okay. And there's no minimum salaries for LOCs.

Jen: And they're quite flexible, you know, as far as like, Getting one awarded to your, your company because there's not the same kind of requirements for the EPS and S passes to have a certain number of employees. [00:25:00] So they were quite popular. But during COVID, when so many businesses were closing down, they were trying to find ways to keep the locals employed.

Jen: And one of the ways is to say, Okay, let's reserve these jobs that don't pay very much for the local population. Yeah,

Rachel: You can't

Paula: understand it from that point of view.

Rachel: So, and they had a massive overhaul, didn't they? They had, now they have this compass system, which is like a percentage of nationalities or?

Paula: Oh, do they?

Jen: Yeah. So now there's a new compass system that evaluates the company. And the passholder, which I think is why they call it Compass, if I had to guess. Um, so the, there's like a 50 percent evaluation on the company and 50 percent of the evaluations on the passholder. So for the passholder's perspective, they need to have a college degree or if they don't have a college degree, they need to have a lot of work experience and can show that they've been doing their job at a level that's, you know, [00:26:00] at least as much as what a, A university graduate, graduate would make, you know, at a high level earning and, um, you know, they need to

Paula: well you

Jen: to have a passport and you have to make a certain amount of money, um, depending on which sector you're in and there's a chart that's on the MOM website that goes from the age of 23 all the way up to 45 plus and by the time you get to the 45 plus year olds, you're, you're looking at needing to make at least 10, 500 for the, um, regular employment pass.

Jen: If you're looking at financial services, it's more than that. It's either 5. 

Rachel: Is there a restriction on the finance? Because I, I remember vaguely hearing that, that, um, they were trying to reserve a lot of the finance jobs for locals, or?

Rachel: That's

Jen: there's a different, um, criteria for finance. [00:27:00] Um, They don't want all of their banking jobs to go to foreigners. And so the, the salary increment is higher if you're in financial services. So like if you're at a bank or an investment fund or whatever, you have a higher bar to reach.

Jen: And basically what they've done is taken the top 25 percent of these PMETs of their earnings and set that as what the salary bar is for getting an EP. Is it, is it

Paula: a lot higher than other countries, do you think? Or you don't know?

Jen: I think it is. I mean, I've been looking at Dubai, for example, and I know there's not such a high restriction for people to move in there.

Jen: You don't have to have as high of a,

Rachel: um, earnings

Jen: history to go to Dubai, for example.

Rachel: And can dependents work in Dubai? I

Jen: think so, yes.

Paula: Okay. Are [00:28:00] you

Paula: Are you thinking of moving Dubai? 

Rachel: Dubai No.

Paula: But it's a 

Jen: a good comparison to Singapore because very similar, you know, in their way that um, Singapore decided to welcome people, foreigners, foreign talent to come in and help grow their economy and Dubai did the same thing.

Jen: They welcomed a lot more foreign talent. So like Singapore is like 15 percent foreigners and 85%. Locals, whereas it's flipped in Dubai where it's like 15 percent locals and 85 percent foreigners. So my impression of Dubai is that it's much easier to get an employment pass there. Yeah. But they call it something else.

Paula: There's a lot of, I mean, I feel like the last few years, a lot of people have moved to Dubai. That I know. Or maybe, yeah, no, I'm not making that up. No, no,

Jen: it's booming, it's booming.

Rachel: Yeah. When you speak to people. Oh,

Paula: oh yeah, my friend just left for

Rachel: for Dubai.

Paula: It just seems to be the hot

Rachel: a few people have moved to Dubai for that reason.

Jen: Well, [00:29:00] when the war in Ukraine started, Dubai started getting a huge influx of, uh, wealthy Russians and Ukrainians coming in. And, you know, people that, uh, Didn't want to get drafted into war in Russia and went to Dubai. And it was one of the few places that wasn't sanctioned against the Russians. So they've had, they've grown tremendously because of the people from those areas going in.

Jen: Well, I

Paula: haven't been to Dubai in years. Yeah. I quite like Dubai. Just

Jen: You can

Paula: like Dubai.

Jen: I like

Rachel: like Singapore.

Paula: Singapore.

Paula: And so what is the role of an agency like yours, um, in terms of helping with visas? What can you do? 

Rachel: Hey there! We hope that you're enjoying this interview about visas, we have the second half next week, so tune in then. Have [00:30:00] a great week. Thanks. Bye.