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 Welcome to Truly Expat Podcast. I'm Rachel and with me is my co host Paula. Today we're joined by Jennifer Yarbrough.  Founder and Managing Director of White Glove Helper Services. After years of navigating the challenges of hiring helpers in Singapore, Jennifer turned her personal experiences into a mission.

To improve the lives of both families and helpers. Since launching in 2019, White Glove has transformed the hiring process through thoughtful screening and matching, creating countless happy partnerships. Stay tuned as we delve into Jennifer's journey and her insights on building a business that makes a difference. 

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here. 

Yeah, we love we love having you here. It's good.

I'm so excited. Okay, so I'm going to start, I would like to hear your journey first, right? So what brought you here, you know, how long have you been here? And then I really want to delve  how you started. Because, um, I know we've spoken in the past and I've had to help you for 18  years.

So this is quite a passionate.  Subjective one.

Great. We're on the same page with that. 

So let's start. How did you get here?

Uh, we first came to Singapore in 2011 and it was because of my husband's job  and we, um, Hired a helper probably three months after we got here. And the first one was a disaster. The second one was a disaster.

Actually, the second one was okay. But then after the second one, we left and moved back because the two years was up. And we went back to the U. S. And we came back again in 2015. 

and

hired another helper, and it was a disaster also.

no.

And 

I was just doing such a terrible job of choosing the right person for our family.

I was listening to all these people around me, and I, I wasn't really critically thinking about what was going to fit well with our family. And  after seven, six, after six helpers, I finally sat down with one of my friends who had had her helper for a really long time, and I'm like, What am I doing wrong?

You have to help me and so she kind of coached me through the process and said, okay You need somebody who's like this and this and this, you know I know you well and I can tell that's what's gonna fit in your family. So she 

Sent me with like a list of requirements so then I started going agency to agency trying to find somebody that was gonna match my requirements and it was impossible.

Like every place that I went, I would say, Oh, I need somebody who is at least trainable and cooking. And I don't want somebody that had worked for expats before. And I'm, you know, looking for this and somebody that can help with the kids, but not take over. And, um,  and they would just look at me and say, Oh, well.

Here's our best person right here and they would point, you know To the people sitting on the bench there and they they didn't really do any matching And so that's how I kept ending up with these terrible matches. And then finally I found an agency that 

After giving me like five people to interview and I was like, no, it's none of these  finally They called somebody that they knew about to come in and interview with me, and that was the person I hired, and she's been with us ever since.

So, Yeah,

it's really hard. It's like a chemical balance, right? It is. Like, with personalities and these people are coming into your home and, you know, they really have to be like a part of the family, you know, somebody that you're, you're happy to live with.

Yeah, and

and it's like speed dating. Yeah. You know, you've got five minutes with this one and five minutes with that one.

And I, I had one experience at an agency where I, I had three lined up to interview and I interviewed the first one and I loved her and I was like, well, I should interview these other two also just to make sure. And by the time I got to the third one, the first one was already taken. 

Oh. Oh my 

I know, I was so frustrated that day. It was like they had too many people in their office interviewing the same

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. 

That's,  

so, so, I mean, somebody, uh, an expat coming here for the first time could be quite overwhelmed with the thought of somebody being in their house that's not part of their family.

What, what, what is the key benefit of having a helper? 

Well, I, I had the same feelings when I first got here. I thought that sounds crazy. I don't want somebody else living in my house because you fear the loss of privacy. So I think you have to think about the things that are going to be beneficial for your family to have somebody in your house.

And those things are like, Having somebody cook and prepare healthy meals for you and giving you a work life balance, you know, if you're working or even if you're just volunteering and taking care of the kids, um, it, it just gives you another adult in the household. And I think as expats, we come here without our families and we don't have backup.

So what happens, you know, if one of you get sick or like you need somebody else? around who can help you, and I think that's the role that helpers perform for expats here,

Especially if your husband or your partner is travelling all the time, having that extra pair of hands makes life  not easy, but it just, it takes that burden  at once and you're sick. Then what

happens if you're

if you're sick because you've got no friend or parent to call up and say, Can you come over and  

Right, exactly. Or what if you're traveling and you have a pet? Well, your helper can watch your dog, or in my case we have gerbils.

She can feed the gerbils.  

I was going to say plants. We 

have a menagerie in our house. We have a dog, too.

But, you

But you know, that's part of it is finding somebody that actually likes animals, you know, if you have animals. So yeah,

those are important. 

big process. I think it's a very uncommon thing  Australia and a lot of other, Western worlds.

And it's very hard for myself when I first  Hong Kong to get my head around even having someone. Like, I'm not working. Why am I having someone in my house to do my housework for me? When I realised My husband said to me one day, you know what, you're a much nicer person with a helper in the house. 

Because I'm not complaining about doing everything, because I've got someone  you know?

Yeah, and even if you're just, like, staying at home, taking care of the kids, it frees you up to do the things that are more important, like focusing on your children, or volunteering activities, or your work, or whatever, because you're not cleaning the house every day, and picking up everybody's toys,  uh, doing all the cooking, and the laundry!

Right! Forget about the 

about laundry.

Or even if someone has to be home for your air conditioning, cleaning, or maintenance around the house. Deliveries. Deliveries, they're also great aspects. Do you have anyone come in and say, I don't have children,  I don't have pets, but I want a helper?  

Yes, quite often.

Because that's 

me.

Yeah.  Yeah. I, I think even,  like, Two person households that don't have any kids. They still can benefit from a helper because you've got somebody to cook for you So if you're working long hours And maybe you want to follow a special diet or you want to make sure you're eating healthy food You don't want to eat in restaurants And if you're in the office till 7 or 8 o'clock or later Having somebody that can make that meal for you and have it ready for you when you come home is a big deal and then not having to do your laundry and ironing and I used to skip the ironing, you know, when I lived in the U.

S. 

They would just come out of, I know, now I'm so spoiled. I'm like, oh, I can't wear those wrinkly undies. But, it's so

So true. It just feels so much better when they're ironed. It does. And your sheets. Yes. You

knew your sheets needed to be ironed? That's the key to them feeling like you're in a hotel.

Absolutely.

Or even napkins. 

They just look so much nicer.

Yeah, everything's so much nicer and, and having somebody organizing your drawers so that they look nice when you open that drawer, you're like, Oh, there's all my folded

stuff.

Whereas I would have shoved them in before and you forced it closed.

Yeah.

that's going to show up sometime. So 

true. 

Um,  

yeah, and also, I mean, it does take a village to, to, to raise kids. And you've got that, that daycare service as well. Like, you know, like if you do, if you've got two people working in the house, so. Really works. How do, how do you, I mean, when, when I first got here, I was like, um,  where should the helper stay?

You know, like, how do you, how do you  get past that? Like, 

I think you have to consider where they're coming from and what being in your household is going to be like compared to where they were coming from. Like a lot of the  Girls that come over here as helpers are from really small villages. They're living in houses that, um, may not even have window panes in the windows, you know, and dirt floors, some of them.

So I think you have to consider that giving her a proper bed, this might be the first time she's had her own bed in her whole life. If she's fresh from, from overseas, she might have been sharing a bed with all of her siblings. you know.

So,

I think you just have to understand that your expectation of what your bedroom should look like and hers are probably very different.

That's a really good point because I think a lot of times as an expat we look in the place and go, I could never. put someone  But, I mean, sure, the rooms are small, but  clean and there's a window

and there's, 

you 

know,

Airflow. They've got to have airflow.  

Because in Hong Kong, when I lived there, we'd go to apartments and there would be,  in the kitchens, there would be a bed that you pull out, like a Murphy bed, out of the wall, and they would sleep in the kitchen. 

That, I don't  

need 

own privacy, for sure. Yeah.

they need their own privacy, and at least a curtain that they can pull back, you know.

so they can get changed, you know. Yeah. Um, yeah. Just a bit of you time, right? Modesty, Yeah,

And you also want to be able to, as a helper, close that door and signal to everybody that I'm not available right now.

You know, they

closed.

shop's closed. Don't send the kids in.  

Yeah. Yeah.

No, that's, they're important points, definitely. Because I think when I first got here, I was like, oh my gosh, goodness, I can't, can't do that. But then I realised that somebody pointed me out, pointed it out to me that, yeah, they, it's quite nice for them to feel this independence, have their own  You know, space and stuff like that. So that's  

Yeah, and I, I think from all the helpers that I talk to, that's one of the most important things is that they have a private space for themselves, and most of the time they're not, some of them are picky, but most of the time they're not that picky. Yeah. Most of the time. What they want is a door, a room with a proper bed, and you know, some place to put their things,  their own bathroom, and that's about it. 

So

if you weren't to have a  what are some of the what would be the  alternatives that could help  you with, what would be the, like,  that you'd have to hire out if you  

Well, if you have children, you would have to put them in daycare, 

Maybe. 

And I guess if you have pets, you might have  like use a dog walking service, for example, or boarding when you're traveling. Um, laundry and ironing. There's laundry pickup services that are available and people that will, you know, services that'll dry clean and iron your clothes.

But if you do the math and you add all of these things up, you know, you can get 

right? Right. The time spent coordinating all these

Yeah, and the meal deliveries, you could do that, but all of those added together, it's just a no brainer once you figure out what the costs are. 

makes

life  Especially if you go, like  plants or dogs,  pocket, but, yeah, or gerbils. When you add all that up, the convenience, not just the convenience, but the money also it, right? It does. If you've got the right person.

Yes.  If you've got the right person, yes. 

worth it. 

Because I've been down that path of not having the right person, and honestly, every day I would come home going, oh my  a nightmare.

Yeah, you don't want to come home.

No, because I'd be arguing, not arguing, she would argue with  little things like what time dinner should be.

I think

Uh, I think I want to know what time my dinner, I've got little kids, I think I know what time, yeah. That's a  

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

So what is the hiring process here? Like how, how does it work so you want a helper. How do you find one? 

You can go about it two ways. You can go through an agency or you can find one on your own. Um, and even if you find one on your own, you can still use an agency to process all the paperwork and make sure that you have all  your I's dotted or whatever, T's crossed. 

So if you're looking for, um, somebody direct hire, you might ask your friends or look in some of the Facebook groups for recommendations and you know that that can work out really well for some people. Um,  you can also look on, um,  there's some services that have like matching online, like, um,  Some apps that you can use to match with people.

like, a Tinder.  

kind of like 

online dating.

Yeah. 

Um, and then you arrange all the hiring and the interviews and everything yourself. And then you're responsible for making sure you do all the reference texts

That's a nightmare.  From someone who's had a long time, that's a nightmare. So the agency, I  way to go. How hard is it? So, what is the  if I came to  

Well, if you came to us, we would have you fill out a form that gives your requirements. Um, we want to know things like,  what skills are you looking for? What would her duties be? Um, what kind of salary package are you offering?

Because every family's different. 

And,

helpers, they generally won't go for a lower salary than they're currently making, so we have to target person,  for the job. And, and we'd also like to know,  do you have pets? Just kind of all the things we've been talking about, like what's she going to be doing, so that we can find the right person  

because I mean, that makes a big difference. It also depends  you are, right? The helper I  previously was perfect because she would help me with the children,

you know, she

she couldn't cook, but she  well, and she could  one  another.

Whereas now, I don't have children, but because my helper's  she's part of our family. 

Different requirements, right? Because she now needs to  

and she's 

here looking after maintenance and stuff that, you know, that I wouldn't have needed  So they're little things you  

Right, right. So just be specific with your requirements and then what we would do is we would go through our profiles and we would reach out to the helpers. We'd give them your profile and, you know, tell them what you're looking for and where you're from and stuff like that and get their buy in before we send you any

I like that.

Yeah, a lot of agencies don't do that. They don't give the helpers any choice. And I just think, how are you supposed to get a good match if the helper doesn't have any choice on where they go? And, and so we, we make sure they're interested first, and then we send them for an interview. And, you know, if, if they meet the family and they say, no, I'm not comfortable, well, then that's it for us.

Like, I don't try to force people into a situation that they don't want to be in. But a lot of agencies would. They would, like, browbeat them till they took the job, you know? 

such a,  

And

I have helpers tell me all the time, they thank me for being patient about that, you know, and letting them have a choice. 

Yeah, I mean, it seems very strange that if you,  that if you want somebody to be happy with, with each other, or, you know, the two parties to be happy with each other and have a long Yeah. 

Um, sort of partnership together, then, then why wouldn't you take that little bit of extra time instead of like, you know, the whole churning business where, where people just don't fit together and perhaps the skills and things of that person just don't fit. I mean, I, I don't have a helper, but I've always had a cleaner. 

And, um, and I found a really good one and she's really sassy. She's like, when she comes in, she's like, hi boss, how are you doing? You know, and she's like super bubbly. She also like spends the time to perhaps see, she sees a draw. She'll just clean it out. She won't have to be prompted to do those things.

Cause I don't see anything, but it's so nice when they do. See, when they do go that extra mile and she would go, Oh, look, I cleaned out your vacuum cleaner today. And I'm like going, wow, you know, you really have taken the time to really, and she just is so happy. And then she makes me happy. So I make her happy because we're like complimenting each other, you know, and it just makes such a huge difference where I've had cleaners who are very shy and very like, they obviously really want to please you.

But you're like going, 

It

pleases me. That, that you're happy, you know, that you're comfortable here, that you can just do whatever you like and I mean, you know what I mean, within reason, you know what I mean, you can go, hey, you know, Rachel, um, we've run out of this stuff, can you get me some more? I'm like, yeah, more, no problem, you know, and, and, and, and you can have that dialogue with, with each other.

So it's kind of, yeah, it's a hard, it's a, it's a really hard game.  Um, it's a real science to get it right. It is.

is, it's a delicate 

Yeah,

For sure. Because some people prefer people to be quiet. They want their house to be quiet. Yeah. And I like it when it's just raucous. You know? Yeah.

mean?

I like to hear people singing.

You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Well, 

that's,

important to figure out because sometimes when the helper is singing all the time, it drives the employer crazy, like they're trying to work or they need to concentrate.

So it just depends on what is your personality and what is going to work in your household and You know, sometimes some people, especially when they're new, they, they don't get it right the first time  they don't know. They've never had the experience of having somebody around and maybe having somebody who's too friendly and outgoing is too much for them.

And maybe they're quiet. People themselves, know, so they don't want a lot of noise 

For sure, Yeah.

There are.

So then what's the next process once you've  

Once

we've matched them, then we fill out all the paperwork for MOM And, um, we give you choices for insurance Which is a really important decision that I don't think enough people pay attention to But there's There's been a lot of issues in Singapore with, um, people that aren't covered well enough.

And recently MOM has made some changes. They used to have the basic coverage be just 15, 000 for surgeries  and I don't know if you've ever been in the hospital for a surgery in Singapore, but

That's a sneeze.

15,

thousand dollars doesn't cover it. Yeah, and I remember we had, um, a teacher at one of my kids schools, um, their helper had an aneurysm.

She was like I don't know. She was 45 years old, and she ended up having to go into the hospital, and they only had that basic coverage, and they were on the hook for the difference between, I think they said their hospitalization was like 65, 000 before they could get her repatriated back to the

Philippines.

Oh my 

Yeah,

and so they had to make up the difference. So they were fundraising on, you know, these  sites.

and it's just not a good position to be in, you know, so you need to make sure you get the right coverage. So we help you pick out your insurance and then, uh, we do the application to MOM and  we get you set up with your, uh, gyro, which will pay for your levy every month. 

And, and then we, Come to an agreement with the current employer on what date the transfer will happen and then on that date we issue the permit and we send her over to your house  then she starts with you and she's your employee. 

We interviewed Lady Debra, um, on another episode who, who, um, runs a charity called TW2 . Um, and she was talking about domestic workers and how they actually don't see any of their Salaries for three months, um, before they pay off the agency for getting them the work.

Is that something that you, have I asked it right? 

You're asking it 

Was that  

that was foreign? Domestic, no it was domestic. 

But that's  Oh yeah. 

Well, not necessarily. Um, so some agencies in Singapore it's legal to charge up to two months salary for 

the helper? 

To the helper. Yeah. So, um, a lot of agencies They won't even really tell you that there's this fee that the helper's paying. They just kind of sneakily do it behind your back or they put it in the contracts and maybe you don't read it thoroughly, but They're most of them are charging at least one month's salary and some of them too, which is back to your comment about You know, why don't they care?

Well, they're just cycling through over and over again because they're getting paid both from the helper and from the employer So they don't really care that much if the helper has to you know Get another placement two months later because they get another round of fees on that helper

That's why they're not matching properly. They don't really care,

Right, exactly. The incentive isn't there. Um, so we don't charge any fees to the helpers, not even when they're coming from the Philippines, which  is it makes our prices seem higher. So, so a lot of customers, they'll see that. Oh, that 3, 000 that's usually charged to the helper. We charge it to the employers and they can have a bit of a, you know, crisis about it when they see that.

But then usually when I explain to them, well, your helper would normally pay that. It's usually around 3, 000 from because you have to pay the agency overseas They're not allowed to leave the Philippines without exit papers from the Philippines agencies so you have to pay them and then everybody's taking a cut from the helper the overseas agency is the Singapore agency is taking a cut and even though they're They're saying two months is the limit.

They're still getting sometimes three, four, five, or six months salary out of these girls, and they're writing it up as a loan. You know, a loan for your, your training that you had in the Philippines, and a loan for your passport, and whatever, like they, and all of these fees are marked up. So they  give them a huge, yeah, and then they'll go on a three to six month deduction.

Most of the time when they're fresh, they have a six month deduction. And they're, they're getting maybe about seventy five to a hundred dollars a month and the rest of their salary pays back their loans. So they can't really transfer in that first six months because they owe money. 

Yeah.  And their employer is desperate to keep them because they spent a lot of money.

They actually pay those fees up front and then deduct it from the salary of the helper every month. So they don't want to lose the helper that they've just paid,  know, all that money to get them over here. 

they're kind of like, 

It's 

it's so important to know what you're walking into when you, when you do take a helper because that's, um,  because it is, it's, it's not a huge wage that you pay that their helper, but I think it's important to know that all of these behind the scenes things Somebody

is paying that and because it's not you doesn't mean to say, you know.

It's all above board, you know, like you're getting a special deal or anything like that. Like there's somebody. Yeah Losing. 

Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, all the agencies are basically charging about the same amount because we all call around and we find out what everybody else is charging and we do comparison pricing. But  I think a lot of them are passing more of that cost on to the helpers. And so, yeah, it seems to the employer like, Oh, this one's really cheap.

But what they don't realize is how much of that is Being born by the helper, which is not a nice thing, in

my 

especially because they're not getting a huge wage to start

with. 

to start with. Right. And in my opinion, the person who is most economically able to pay for these fees, to get these girls out of these countries, it's the employer.

It's not the helper. The employer makes so much more money than what the helper  

I mean, like when you move to a  as an expat,  Generally, most of the  the employer pays for  

Yeah. It's 

no different  a helper  relocating  Um, into,

um, into your home,  

Or  

business, or, that's what I'm looking for, employment.

so, 

For sure. And so, um, but there is a way to mitigate because there's so many, there's so many helpers here who, who need to move to different places. So you do also employ people who are local, don't you?

Yeah, so we do transfers as well.

In fact, the majority of what we do is transfers. We, we only bring a few in from the Philippines because it's mostly local employers that want to bring somebody in fresh from the

Is that right?  

because

they can train them. They, they want somebody who can specifically do You know, things the way they want them done, but most expats when they come in, they want somebody that's already well trained and familiar with Singapore.

So especially if you're new, having somebody that knows how to go to the wet market and get a good deal or, you know, they can use the public transport system. Like these girls from the village. They can't navigate the bus as easy as it seems to you, no. So you have to have a lot of patience and,

the language.

and the language, yeah.

Although in the Philippines they're learning English in school. so by default, yeah, Indonesians um, have less  English skills than Filipinos do.

can, where else, I mean, Philippines,  

um, Thailand, Sri Lanka, India. 

I didn't realize that. Okay, I didn't 

I've had a few Myanmar, um, cleaners. We, through our  

We, through our agency, you know, we sign up helpers from, that are mostly transferring. 

And we get Quite a, quite a few Filipinos, I would say that's the most of what we get, like 95%. And then the second category I think would be, nationality, would be, um, Indonesians. And then every once in a while we'll get a really good, uh, Myanmar helper or somebody from Sri Lanka that's been in an expat family and they hear about us from other helpers in their condo. 

Yeah. No, it sounds like you're doing a really good, good work there.  That you  You're not charging them for a start and that you're matching them with the right  a harmony in the household  

Yeah, and we try to stand by them too whenever they have a problem. Um, and the employers too, like we try to mitigate when When there's an issue, and it could be something simple, like a misunderstanding about their food.

A lot of times, the helpers, when they come into a household, the employer says, and you can have anything you want to eat, but  they are not used to that, and they want to be told what they're allowed to eat. And so then, they'll message us and say,  They're not feeding me. And I'm like, oh, surely they're feeding you.

So then I message the employer and I'm like, she says she's not getting enough food. And they're like, oh, I told her she can have anything. And so, I'll tell them, you need to go back and like, have a very specific discussion about, you can eat this and you can have all this rice and you can eat any of the vegetables in the drawer.

You know, like you have to be really clear  Yeah, for sure.

I know that,  I'm a little OCD. So in the beginning,

I used

a manual, um, with everything that I I need to be get done, right? Whether it's,  floors, I just hate messy house. So those were my top priorities. Not everybody's, but they were my top priorities.

Um, I didn't care about if someone could cook or not, but, and I, and I found over time that having that manual for them, they could see exactly black and white because what I found also was that if I didn't have something in place, things kind of moved into  a, grey area, too hard to bring it back and that's why I used to argue with  because she  believed that it was her house to run, 

Right. 

Yes,

that happens sometimes. And, and I think sometimes when you hire somebody that's been here a really long time, like 15, 20 years, they're  They kind of feel like they know what they're doing and they don't want to be given so many instructions So you can have a little bit of a mismatch there That's why when I was looking for somebody and I finally found the one that worked for us I was looking for somebody that it had no expat experience at all because I was finding The ones that were experienced wouldn't listen to 

Yeah, 

I would try to get them to do things my way and and you know, they do it for one or two days and then they start ignoring me again. And it was very frustrating.

Very frustrating.

does, it does, it hits home, right? When they, when they think that, that whatever you're saying is not right. And in the end, with one of the clean, I mean, this was just a clean, it would just get me so wound up. And I would just be like, you know what? My husband wants you to do it.

And then they would do it. Oh, yeah. And that was the only way I could get them to do it. Because they were more likely to.  to respect my husband's wishes than mine because he was a male. I dunno why. It's kind of,

It happens sometimes, yeah. 

Yeah. 

 I guess that's why, uh, language skills are really important with Yeah. Yeah. Because I find also that I will talk, say something and then it will go, 

Yeah,

It will just not register.

Or you think

it registers, but obviously something doesn't get done because they don't understand, but they're saying yes 

Yeah, they always say yes anyway. They agree with whatever you say. If you say I need you to do da da da da da da da da da And you say it at that pace and you're really fast and they're like, yes, ma'am Okay, and you come back and it's not done and you're like, why didn't you do that? well, she heard the first word and the last word and she was like You want me to do something?

Okay, I'll do

something? Okay, I'll do something. 

my solution to that is if I have a complicated instruction, I send it in a WhatsApp because she can put that into Google Translate and get the instructions in Tagalog and and then she understands what I'm asking because otherwise. 

It's funny because a lot of my clients are Americans or Australians and they think that their accent is very understandable to helpers, but it's not because it's not the accent that they're used to at home.

Their teachers in English didn't speak like that. And, um, yeah, I, I find the American accent is. Somewhat hard for them to

Oh really? I thought it would be an Aussie  

uh, it's all of us

us.

Yeah. I gonna tell you that

I'm from New Zealand. I've lived in Australia. I've lived in the UK and I've also lived in the US and when we came from the UK to the US, no, and we had all these colloquialisms from, from the UK and, um, Nobody in the U. S. understood anything we said, and it was, it wasn't until we rounded our R's that, that, that we could get, you know, we had to adapt to the language, and I think that's the same with, you know, uh, when you go to the U.

K., they have all of these S different accents, you know, and mm-hmm

If you, It 

be hard for someone who

who, if someone's had a few beers

they just go

into their glaswegian, you've got no hope of understanding

what they're saying, no you don't,

So 

imagine

somebody coming who's just had school, maybe British English or the Queen's English, and nobody speaks the queen's English.

Right. So, yeah, it is, it's hard.

It's, it's important. You don't realise how important it  someone comes into your home and it's, and they don't speak much English, or you think they're speaking but they actually might speak it but not  it, and I, but I do believe that once you do have the right fit, so our helper's been with us almost, I think it is and she is a big part of our life, isn't  does a lot, like, Nina. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have to do a shout out to Nina.

Nina. She's fabulous. She helps us stay up

here.

Yeah, yeah. And we can have a, you know, a good old banter with Nina, she's, she's good fun, yeah.

She's amazing. But that's what I mean, like, when you do have the right fit, there is no way, I know deep down we probably don't need a helper, there's my husband and I, but she's such a big part of the family, I couldn't  I don't want to let her go.

I want to give her

to someone else. She's

family, right?

absolutely. And all my family at home treat her  

You know, when we moved back to the US from Singapore for a two year stint, that was the hardest thing for me was adjusting to doing everything by myself. I just felt like that was all I did. And it suddenly, because before I was doing it all, but it.

It was just so normal because that's the way everybody else lived and after experiencing somebody taking care of all these things for me and then suddenly I had to do it and and then I had high standards because now my sheets needed to be ironed and you know I wasn't just folding things out of the dryer anymore and it was so much work and I was so stressed out and I realized how much I didn't I had to put the kids aside, kind of, to get some of that stuff done.

Yeah, so it really made me appreciate it. And then I was gutting to my husband, like, we've got to go back to Singapore.  And he said, you know, all of your friends have left now. And I was like, I'll make new friends. I need a helper.

friends. I'll be a helper. It's so true, though. I mean, it's just people don't understand.  And I also don't understand how much she does until I have  

Right. You really appreciate it.  once you have to step into that role and do it yourself. 

Absolutely. It's just the little things, like even, you know, the tidying up or the, I didn't realize that I  and, you know, it's,

it's just something

you don't think about. Right. They do, they do so much. Um, what about cultural  Do you have, do you find that you have to be careful of that as well, especially if you're going to bring someone maybe from Indonesia that might have,  can't eat certain foods or need to pray or something  

Um, some employers struggle with that, you know, if, if they're not used to it or they hadn't even considered it, you know, a lot of Muslims pray five times a day and they need  15, 20 minutes to do that. 

What if they're taking care of your children and they're really young and they want to leave them alone? Like, in their mind, they need to leave them alone so they can go and pray, but in your mind, why would you ever leave the children alone? So, you need to make sure you work that out and come to an agreement with her.

Like, how do you do that safely and how do you make sure the kids are Okay, while you go pray, you know, it can be done, it can be worked out, but it's definitely something you need to consider.

Also food, right? There's certain food that they can't prepare, like pork  um,  

know.

Yeah, And and speaking of food, um, food is a huge deal for the helpers. They're, not only, Are they sometimes in households where they don't get enough food, but they can also, they can miss their home food, just like if you were to go and move, let's, let's say you moved,

Yeah.

Right.

What if, what if you moved to China and suddenly you weren't allowed to eat any food from your home country again, and you could only get it once a week or something, it would make you You'd miss it a lot, you know, make you kind of sad and you might cut back on your eating because you're not getting what you want, you know, some people can go through that. 

Yeah. So I often advise employers to give them a food allowance 

and 

like there's different ways you can handle food. You can buy their groceries for them. You can, um, let them eat what the family eats or you can give them a food allowance. And I find that Most of the helpers would prefer a food allowance over anything else because that way they get, they don't have a lot of control in their lives and they get some kind of control over what they eat and as a human being, that's very important to you to be able to,

own choices, like having a choice to be able to do those things, even if it's just a small thing. 

Yeah, it's an independence type of thing.

And some families have, Restrictive diets, they might be vegetarians or they might be, um,  I don't know, maybe they're not eating gluten or something and they expect the helper to follow those same rules and that's quite difficult for a lot of them to follow.

So, giving them a food allowance and being a little more flexible and maybe, maybe if you're a household where you don't eat meat, maybe you, Give her an allowance so she can go to the Hawker Center a few nights a week and get meat because it's an important part of their diets from their home

yeah, for sure. Yeah,

And you want to make sure that they're properly nourished. And if they're not used to being a vegetarian, they might not know how to make sure they get all the protein they need, 

Yeah, for sure.

It makes sense. I mean, we've always given our helper a, um, food allowance until  our recent, like,  with us 10 years, she has all the  She has full control of our, like, I don't even  She goes out and she goes and buys all the food. She has full autonomy. Um, which I love, now that I don't have kids, but it'd be a different story if I had kids. But now, so she makes whatever she wants and then sometimes she'll make so much that she'll go out and have a picnic with her friends.

I have no problem  You know? That's nice. But it's, but like you said, it's, it's, it's an independence thing. It's a,  I just assume  

no  Most do not. Yeah. 

surprises 

me.

I think it is, especially if they've got kids. You know, like it is a thing.

You really want to be in control of your kids lives and what they eat and things like that. So you tend to put that also on all the other people in the family. So you're sort of, you're governing whatever happens. Talking about, um,  What, what sort of rights and responsibilities are expected, um, towards domestic helpers  

So, um, the minimum rules are she has to have a bed to sleep in, she's got to have,  some privacy, no cameras in her bedroom. 

What?

Why would you put Oh, I don't  

So you can monitor her 24 7. That's what some employers think, but it's not allowed. So if the helper reports to us that that's being done, we have to, you know, step in and help them out and get the employer to take the camera away.

Sometimes they'll share a room with the children or the baby and they might have a camera in there. To make sure the kids okay, but it's not okay if that's where your helper sleeping. So that just doesn't work 

So they also have to provide food. They have to provide all health care So a hundred percent of her health care is on you.

So if it's  glasses that she needs or 

I don't know, a surgery, or a women's well checkup, or whatever, that's part of your responsibility, the dentist. 

Tampons. 

Tampons 

actually are your responsibility, yeah.

What 

about if they're pregnant? 



It's

part of their work pass conditions that they are not allowed to get pregnant.

I thought 

So if MOM finds out they're pregnant, they will get banned from working in Singapore. If they go to a local doctor and the doctor, I don't know if they have an abortion or something,  they have these, 6 month medical checkups and so if in that checkup there's any sign that they are or were pregnant recently, they'll get their work pass cancelled and they'll get sent home.

What 

if they went home to their  came back and  Is that also  Not so

I think, um, in that scenario, if they can prove that they were at home, you know, during the time of conception, they still have to go back, but they won't get banned. They can come back. 

 The rule is the rule. So, because they knew it coming in, it's part of the training that they go through, so they know that they can't get pregnant.

So, they need to be careful while they're here.

you can also go ahead and um,  I mean, I know that there's some places here that can offer helper training, not just normal cooking and cleaning, but also, you know, first aid courses or hairdressing courses and stuff that they potentially can take after they've left  is that  

Um, yeah, they can take courses here for things that don't have anything to do with their current job. So there's, there's courses that are available for them.  learning how to manage your money in the Philippines for, um,  starting a farm. Like there's a whole, like start a coconut farm or something kind of course that's given here and, and financial management stuff like that, that they can take and yeah, to help them get to a better place for a lot of people.

This is a stepping stone and they come here to earn money while their children are young, but then, Once the children grow up, they want to go back  take care of their families and,  

know.

The other question I have for you is that, is it, do people give bonuses? I mean, you would think  to give them a year or  But it's not law,  

Oh, it's

not the law and, um, the vast majority of people do not give any bonuses.  Nothing. Um, I think you're coming from a cultural place where your job gives you a bonus every year.

In the U. S., you don't get a bonus every year.

Oh, you don't?

No. No. So,

Okay, so

people in other

naive.

in  

people in other countries, that might not be part of their culture and it's not necessarily the culture in Singapore either. Okay. And, um, 

So I do a survey every year. In fact, I was just about to send one out, you know, I do it in December because I get a lot of questions around this time of year.

What kind of bonus or what kind of annual bonus do we give? And  the helpers tell me what they get and they're very honest. And

I can imagine.

some of them like to brag and, oh, my employer gives me, um, you know, one month salary and. You know, other things.  They're paying for my kids school. Some helpers are very fortunate that way.

But others, I see messages like, I didn't even get a Merry Christmas.  Yeah.

Or I

to work.

actually quite important, especially for Filipinos, because most of them are Christian, aren't they? So, yeah. And it's quite an important time of year for them, you know. That's so interesting. Those

sort of little things matter. Like I always buy a birthday  Not for us to cut. For, we wish her a, sing a happy birthday, but for her to take it to her friends and have it with them.

Because,  it's a celebration. It 

It

should definitely be with her friends. But I wondered, is it important part of Singapore law that they need to go home? Like, you pay for them to go home to see their family or is that just a fear? 

So, at the end, repatriation is part of the employer's responsibility. But,

of whether you employed them from here or from there?

Right. Okay,

So, even if you're hiring a transfer helper, if she decides she's done, you have to pay to send her back.  Under Singapore law,  there's no requirement that they be sent home for, for home leave.

Really?

Really.

I thought they had to every once a year, or once every  

Well, it's in the contracts that the Association of Employment Agencies produces and shares with all the agencies that are members of the organization, um, and they put that in there because they feel like the helpers do need to go home and they do need to spend time with their families.

That's the only clause that I'm allowed to. Completely take out. Yeah,  

Oh.

Not kidding. 

sad. I didn't

Yeah, so the standard in Singapore is  after two years if she renews her contract you're obligated to send her home for 15 days is the norm. Yeah, so that's like the  cultural practice here, but it's not regulated that that's  

Oh, wow. 

Yeah, no, that is, that's crazy. But, um, yeah, I think, I mean, most of my friends have, who've had helpers, they do send them home at least once a year, because  It just makes sense, because people work better if they've been, you know, recharged with their home batteries, I always call it, like, I always feel like a different person when I go home for a little while, I'm like, yeah, I'm

back.

back. And they appreciate you and they want to stay with you if you're able to send them back. Not everybody wants to go home, though I have had helpers that they don't want to go home because They're the richest people in their hometown, and everybody expects a gift, and their, their cousins are coming over for handouts, and it gets really expensive for them, so they just want to avoid the whole scene.

But most, I think, want to go home and see their families, especially if they have kids

is there anything else you'd like  

Um, I just think it's important that in the beginning of the relationship that new employers, people who haven't hired before, that they really  set a good Um, start to the relationship and there's a lot of things you can do to make things go smoothly like, um, be very welcoming when she shows up.

Like sometimes, uh, if you have kids, maybe you could have them write a welcome banner and, you know, put them in her room and make sure she's got a comfortable room set up and. You know, sit down and have a chat with her about her responsibilities and stuff right from the very beginning so that the relationship starts out right and don't, don't expect somebody to be like a robot and be able to come in and perform at your expectation from day one because They just met you and they don't know anything about your family, so you have to give them some time to adjust. 

I 

I mean, any job takes at least six months to get your head around, like it's different culture, different people, different ways of expectations, and you're not always going to get it right from the beginning in your own job, so it's got to reflect exactly on the helper as well.

Yeah, and she's being inundated with instructions, you know, the very first day, that's when you lay it all on her and, you know, the next day, imagine if somebody threw it all on you, you'd kind of forget half of what they said the next day.

So it takes time to train and you have to give them a little bit of grace to catch up to where you are.

Yeah, no, that's really good advice, for sure.

So thank you so much for coming on today. I mean, I've even learned, even though I've had a helper

for so

long, I've learned things.

So thank

My pleasure.

much. Yeah, me too. I've learned so much. It's really, yeah. You've really got to see it from the other side of the coin, right?

Like, you do have huge expectations coming from a pretty privileged background, um, to expect.  your new partnership or with your helper to, to reflect that and it's completely different life.

 📍 Yeah, and they, they are not  like, well educated nannies.

They're, they're not like your British nannies, for example, and, and they're not trained at the Four Seasons Hotel in housekeeping and hospital corners. So you have to set your expectations that, you know, it's not going to be perfect. She's not gonna be perfect, and you can't expect somebody to be perfect, but she will make your life a lot easier.

So you have to.  Pick your battles, just like you would with your kids.

Pick your battles. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you

Jennifer!