Episode 41: The Expat Health Edit: Understanding Neurodivergence: Jo Brownlow's Holistic Approach to Children's Health in Singapore

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Paula: My name is Paula and together with Rachel, we welcome you to today's episode of the Truly Expat Podcast. We're thrilled to have you join us and explore essential health and wellness topics with leading experts in Singapore.

Paula: In this episode, we're excited to welcome back Jo Brownlow, a functional medicine health coach. Jo will help us navigate the challenges of supporting children with early neurodivergent symptoms like ADHD, dyslexia, and autism.

Paula: Jo will provide valuable insights and practical strategies to help families manage these early signs and offer holistic advice for supporting children through this journey. If you're a parent, caregiver, or just curious about children's gut health, this episode is for you. Let's dive into this important conversation with Jo.

Paula: Welcome. Welcome back, Jo.

Rachel: Oh,

JO: Oh, thank you. Thanks

Paula: again for coming by. I'd like to know, well, like, where do we start? Because it's such a big topic, right? So I know you have personal experience

JO: with this.

Paula: this. So [00:01:00] let's start from the beginning.

JO: Yeah, so, um, gosh, uh, about 10 years ago. Well, actually, pretty much not long after my son was born. There was stuff going on that I felt that, you know, he wasn't developing as quickly.

JO: Fast or, you know, he wasn't. Yeah. 

Paula: Was this your first son or your Yes, my first son,

JO: Yeah. Um, and, uh, you know, he just was in a bit of a bubble and we couldn't really get in there. Um, and we started trying to get him into schools. He actually went to Tanglin for, for year one. And basically screamed for the whole year. And, um, he went into it, he couldn't learn.

JO: He just didn't seem to be able to, you know, learn to look at letters and couldn't, you know, was not speaking in this way that he should have been doing. So he went into these sort of separate classes and he had, um, uh, a ed psych report and they were like, well, we [00:02:00] can't really rule out autism. We, at this point, cause he was only six, you know, we, we.

JO: Um, didn't give a diagnosis. So We then moved to Malaysia and he went into an American school. He couldn't get into the Marlborough, which was the, um, the British school there. So he went to the American school. The head there was amazing and he was very supportive, but he just was, Unable to sit, you know, unable to learn.

JO: And, uh, we did a further report where he was then diagnosed with dyslexia and dyscalculia.

JO: And, yeah, so dyscalculia is basically when you can't do the numbers. So dyslexia is the writing and the words, but the numbers and, um, but he was showing these amazing artistic tendencies. So he started creating beautiful art very early on, but he was a challenge.

JO: And, um, when we moved to Malaysia, I stopped working. [00:03:00] Prior to that, we were, um, you know, both my husband were working quite hard. So it was harder for us to focus, but it did give me the opportunity. We moved to Malaysia and my friend, I was chatting on the beach with her in Penang one evening, and she said, have you thought about, you know, looking into his gut health and food?

JO: And I was like, okay. So luckily. My doctor in Singapore, I'd sort of fell into, um, having her, she was quite, she had a functional approach and she said, I think you should see a nutritionist. So we, we did the whole, you know, gut GI map test and it came back with this three different candida, which is basically a fungus overgrowth in his gut, as well as low levels of good bacteria.

JO: Quite a few high, bad bacteria and, um, uh, hampered digestion and it was interesting because I'd never noticed but actually he always had a pot belly by the end of the day and that is sort of an [00:04:00] indicator of maldigestion because he's not actually, he's, the food's just sitting there still.

JO: And it's just bloating and causing, you know, this lovely fermentation.

JO: It very uncomfortable for him.

JO: So we did, um, it, my husband was not that on board with it. So that was fairly challenging, but I, I was determined. , you know, when I learn about something, I want to just jump on it. So we did a candida cleanse and, uh, that was taking things like caprylic acid or olive oregano, niacin and really reducing any forms of carbs and sugars in his diet.

JO: I mean, he had no,

JO: and very few carbs really for about six to eight weeks. And actually it was just the most amazing change in person that we He went from being in the bubble and he suddenly started looking at us and talking to us and being just, it was just, it was, it was, To the point where my husband was like, all right, then you're [00:05:00] right Which was great because then he was on board now It's it wasn't as simple as that we then got him diagnosed with something called SIBO small intestine bacterial overgrowth Which is where the bacteria go from the the main?

JO: number of bacteria that you have in your gut do tend to be in your large intestine. And what happens is when you have compromised digestion, they move up into the small intestine because that's where all that food is still. It's not being pushed through properly. So we had to work on that and, and in that process, you remove gluten, you remove dairy.

JO: And so it was a massive transformation and a massive education. And, you know, we spent hours in the kitchen. I mean, some of the food that we gave him was really quite bizarre, but it was a really amazing. journey because he came out of himself. Um, we had removed him from school at that point. And that I think is part of the [00:06:00] puzzle to remove the stress from the child because school wasn't working for him.

JO: And he went into this community where this guy was tutoring him, um, but with a few other kids. And then that grew to be lots of other kids. And, um, that really worked for him. Um, so for me seeing that just, I really needed to know more about it. And actually around that time I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's.

JO: So probably the stress of doing it, um, did, uh, lead to my Hashimoto's diagnosis, but it, it, you know, It was there already. It was just fact that, um, it was diagnosed. Um, and then, so I trained to become a health coach. And then of course, during COVID, I realized I wanted to do more and because I, I have a degree in chemistry, so I've got a bit of a geeky brain.

JO: I was like, okay, I'm going to learn functional medicine. So I spent two years studying the sort of the science bit [00:07:00] on why and how. It works. And, um, so now I love helping women and children really to, to basically get to the root of why. They are struggling because, um, it helps if, if the mum's also in a good, good place.

JO: So I do actually work with quite a few mums and kids because it, it, having the support of the mum physiologically and, you know, health wise and the, the, doing the transformation because you're also similar foods.

Rachel: aren't babies. They, they get their, their mothers, uh, gut health, don't they? Yes,

JO: absolutely.

JO: And that's if you. When you have a natural birth, you know, actually C section birth, you end up not giving your child the gut

JO: microbiome

JO: because they're taken out of through. Yeah. So you seed the child's gut as they come through the birth canal. So there is, and both my kids were C section.

JO: so Yeah.[00:08:00]

JO: Um, and also all our toxicities or, or, you know, genetically you pass down,

Rachel: Obviously, celiac.

JO: toxicities

JO: like my body, you know, Could have had stuff going on and you know, you pass that down to your kids.

JO: So,

Rachel: So 

Paula: it's where you're saying it at the time of giving birth, whatever you're going through, the baby 

JO: through. Yeah. Well, to a certain degree, what you have in your system will be passed because your bloodstream is What is passing through the child. So, you know, if you've got some, you know, I have to admit I was a smoker when I was younger and actually cigarettes are full of cadmium, which is a heavy metal, which is really not good for the body to have in it.

JO: And so I probably passed cadmium down to both my kids. Um, which, you know, needs to be detoxified. And if you're not detoxing well, um, And that's all part of why children get these neurodivergent, uh, symptoms is [00:09:00]because their bodies aren't detoxing well, their guts aren't optimized to take the nutrients out.

JO: They have overgrowth of bad bacteria, strep, even like there's this, um, There's this problem called, um, PANS, PANDAS, it's basically a, a syndrome, um, and it's related to strep overgrowth. And it's when children become very, over a very quick period, they can become very aggressive and angry and, you know, outbursts and, and mums have no idea what's going on.

JO: And actually it's because, it can be stemmed from this syndrome that is caused by a strep overgrowth. So 

Paula: it's

Paula: just not teenagers.

JO: Yeah, it's not.

Paula: I had a few of those. So what are some of the symptoms? I know you said,

JO: um, potentially learning. Yeah. I mean, neuroinflammation

Paula: neuroinflammation

JO: is related to the gut. [00:10:00] Now it can be things like dyslexia, dyscalculia, Um, even dyspraxia, it's, it's, it's all part of, dyspraxia is challenges with movement.

Rachel: Oh, okay.

JO: The child can quite happily read, um, in front of them, but then they look up at the board and they can't get what's on the board written down, those sort of things.

JO: Um, autism, ADHD, ADD, all those.

JO: For me now, because Archie was, he's not dyslexic or dyscalculic, so that diagnosis was wrong. But he, um, we took him to be tested when we moved back here from Malaysia three years ago. And, um, The way they test ADHD is very much subjective, as in the, the parent fills in the forms, uh, any other caregiver fills in the forms, and Archie will fill in a form, and then they go, Oh, he's got ADHD.

JO: So he was diagnosed with, um, ADHD. And, um, I see that actually as a bit of a [00:11:00] superpower for him because he's very able to get things done that he wants to get done. And he's actually probably the most organized child in the world, which is very unusual. You know, he's, you know, he'll get up in the morning and he'll do ice baths and go to the gym and he very, you know, what knows what he

Rachel: How old is he?

JO: He's now 16, so nearly 17.

Rachel: Wow, that's awesome.

Rachel: He's 

JO: an awesome child. So,

Paula: So you're saying ice baths and do you, do you think saunas

JO: So, yeah. So, okay. So when it comes to symptoms with kids, it's sort of all about these neurodiverse ADHD. Um, um, when you want to get to the root cause of what is happening in the child is you would, you would want to understand, you know, how their birth is, what sort of exposure they've had to toxins, What their symptoms are related to gut health and whether they're able to concentrate in certain [00:12:00] environments, that sort of thing, you know, do they, you know, do they chew properly at dinnertime?

JO: , Do they actually focus on eating or are they spending most of their time running around? Just like the fast eaters? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So that, you know, so you work on understanding what areas are not optimal. Yeah. And then the child, um, we work on just engineering the diet and looking root cause.

JO: Now, sometimes, The root cause is just a very strong dysbiosis, which I think was for Archie. Um, I think there's probably, because I have mold toxicity, he's probably got that

JO: happening

JO: in his body, but, um, looking for heavy metals and doing a detox process with them can make a big difference, but at the same time, you don't want to start the detox when his body's not strong enough.

JO: So you need to make sure that you've optimized the nutrients and, you know, made all those parts. good and strong first before doing [00:13:00] that removing if you know what I mean because when you try and take things like heavy metals or mold out of a child it actually goes into the circulation again because it needs to come out and if they've got then Blocked final, you know, they don't they're not having a good bowel movement every day.

JO: Then it could then actually Recirculate the toxins which it is something that you really want to avoid. So it's a

Paula: Wow.

JO: yeah

Paula: I didn't realise that. Did you? I thought it was just, you know, you know the toxins are there so you just get rid of them, but it's a whole process,

JO: Yeah, because you don't want to to mobilize the toxins if they're not going to come out.

JO: Yeah

Paula: Okay.

Rachel: So how do you, how do you detox the toxins?

JO: The toxins, yeah. Well, it's a similar thing to an adult, but you have to be a bit lower and slower. So you just have to take it slower. Um, you know, I tend to work on the gut health. And in fact, the majority of the kids that I've worked with here, it's all been about the gut. [00:14:00] We haven't gone through that detox protocol

JO: because

JO: it's, we haven't gone beyond that.

JO: Yeah. Um, And I would say, um, kids who, have autism would probably be, be more on the, the, the toxin side of things. I'd say some, like a lot of the kids with ADHD, it's an issue with the neurotransmitter production, which can be related to maldigestion because neurotransmitters are created Through, um, certain nutrients, which is amino acids, which is derived from protein and a lot of B vitamins, which you also get in your sort of protein sources, B12, B6, B2, all these.

JO: So when you don't digest food well, and when maybe your gut is compromised with the wrong set of bacteria to allow for the, the nutrient assimilation, um, you're not then [00:15:00] able to support. creating the right neurotransmitters like ADHD is associated with no low dopamine, which is your sort of concentration focus, uh, neurotransmitter.

JO: Um, and so I tend to work on that and that can fall into line.

Rachel: Yeah.

Rachel: and 

Paula: And so if you feel like your son or your daughter potentially, you think there might be 

JO: Yeah.

JO: Okay. Um, this, the, the first process is to fill in the health history symptom questionnaire to, to understand where the symptoms are coming from, whether there's some sort of allergic tensor.

JO: I mean, a lot of kids with these neurodiversities tend to have like asthma and allergies and things like that. And that's also in that same sort of inflammatory state. Um, So you've got inflamed brain, inflamed gut, inflamed body, nasal congestion, that sort of thing. [00:16:00] Um, so you, the, the best thing is to fill in the forms and, and to also, if you, if you don't want to see a private practitioner is try for yourself, removing the gluten and the dairy from the diet.

JO: Yeah, do a process of sort of six week removal and that's 

JO: actually, you 

JO: know, something that you could do quite easily at home to see whether there's, uh, an improvement. Um, a lot of kids, especially Neurodiverse kids, are very sensitive to the processed colorings in food. So just taking those out can make a massive difference to concentration.

Paula: you say that because he had lots of stuff on

JO: his kid, but he would

Paula: could not have the, whatever the red pro, that red

Paula: in

Paula: anything, Panadol, anything, he would go

JO: Yeah,

Paula: Like absolutely loopy and it took us a while to realize it was actually the Panadol

JO: Oh my [00:17:00] gosh!

JO: Yeah, not a good thing when you're going

Paula: on a flight Trust me. I've been there. Um, so when you say toxins, where are they getting these heavy metals and

JO: and stuff? Oh, gosh. Well, interestingly, uh, well, you've got the cadmium in, you know, in cigarette smoke. But, you know, our food is covered in pesticides and that's quite toxic.

JO: So, having inorganic vegetables. that haven't been washed. I mean, there's a list called the clean 15 and the dirty dozen. Do you follow

Rachel: that? Mm-Hmm. because

JO: actually organic food here is very expensive. So they, uh, the environmental working group have a, um, a list that they produce every year that says a clean 15 as in the vegetables that are the least affected by pollution.

JO: pesticides And then the dirty dozen the ones that you really don't want to touch like the mainly the ones you don't want to touch are the Berries because they're they've got those very delicate skins So, you know chowing down on lots of berries that are inorganic can [00:18:00] Increase toxins now if you're already sensitive that's going to be the issue Mercury is very much in the big fish.

JO: So you're eating a lot of tuna fish or going for sashimi every day,

JO: you know,

JO: the big fish. So avoid them. Only the small fish, you know, have the sardines and the, you know, um,

Paula: the stuff that doesn't taste as nice.

JO: nice. I love that. I love,

Rachel: love it. I'm an anchovy freak, I could just eat them like, yeah.

Paula: No, 

JO: and they're great 'cause they're a source of, you know, calcium. 'cause the bones are in there.

JO: So, okay. And that's a good thing. And that's the other thing is don't worry about the fact that when you cut out dairy, that, oh my gosh, we've got no calcium in our diet. You know, there's a lot of calcium in other, you know, fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds. So you can get a really good dose of your calcium that's needed

Rachel: Also, um, vegetables that you can peel. Like, oh, fruits, you know, fruits and vegetables, like avocados and, um, bananas. [00:19:00] They don't need to be organic because you can peel them, right? So they're just the things, yeah. Like watermelon as well, that doesn't need to be organic.

Rachel: Although you have

JO: wash it.

Rachel: the water comes from. Yeah.

JO: know, actually, um, rice, there's quite a lot of arsenic in 

JO: rice, which is 

JO: a little bit 

JO: terrifying.

Rachel: you can, yeah. Somebody, I think somebody in the US that I knew, she actually got arsenic poisoning from eating rice. wow. Uh, so yeah, has to be really careful of that.

Rachel: You're better off with brown rice.

Rachel: Because white rice has 

JO: it depends on where it's born, where it's, not

Rachel: Um,

JO: it's grown, you know, 

JO: you want

Rachel: to try. I can see all these like little baby rice grains. Oh my

JO: Oh my god, I 

Rachel: can't believe I'm like that. We've, uh, we've already passed, uh, Looney Tunes. Yeah.

JO: Um, yeah. So, so, 

JO: the food chain and, and [00:20:00] unfortunately the food chain nowadays has more toxins in it and less nutrients in it. So, you know, an apple from 50 years ago had a lot more nutrients in it. And so you're having to eat more.

JO: So there's all this argument about supplements, you know, we don't need supplements, but actually a lot of people aren't gleaning the right nutrients from their food.

JO: And in order for biological processes to happen, they have to have the cofactors. B vitamins are so important. So I get a lot of people who have very low B vitamins and B vitamins are your detox vitamins. They. They support something called methylation, which is allowing for the body to clear out the toxins.

JO: And if you're low in B vitamins, that process can't happen. It's

Paula: having a supplement is fine?

JO: Yes, but you need to get the right types of supplements. So you

Rachel: have whole food. 

JO: you don't, well, You need to have the good quality ones that don't have the fillers and the crap. So, you know, I, all my clients, I'll send them links for iHerb.

JO: [00:21:00] I don't, you know, I'm too, you know, so Thorn is a good brand. Um, less expensive brand. Uh, Life Extension is not too bad, but yeah, so things like California gold. I'm not so sure about, you know, if you're going to do an Omega 3, which is really good anti inflammatory, helps with cellular health, um, then you need to get Nordic Naturals because depending on where they've taken that fish sauce from, you don't want it to be in some sort of toxic environment that they're, so they will carry metals with them.

JO: So you need it from a good

Paula: Is it also depending on, someone was telling me that with Omega 3, it depends on what fish it comes will depend on how good it is for whatever it is 

JO: for. Yeah, so you've got the EPA and DHA. So you want to make sure it's the right type for your challenge.

JO: I mean, for kids, you know, just a good generic Nordic natural. is absolutely fine yeah [00:22:00] but I mean you can you don't want to just be supplementing for the sake of it so don't just go out and buy loads of B vitamins tomorrow because you think your child needs B vitamins because what you don't want to do is speed up his detox when he's still not detoxing well as in through his bowel so you make sure that the bowels are supported Get, you know, lots of fiber into them and, and the thing with children is they're not these perfect people who will try lots of different foods, you know, they can be a little bit.

JO: So I have a recipe book that I give out with my clients, which are the top foods that Archie, the family went for that still have healthy stuff going on in them, but they're homemade. They've got, you know, like my chocolate brownies are like dates pureed with, um, eggs, cacao powder, um, coconut oil, and almond flour.

JO: And you can change it out if you don't want to do nuts. And they are just the best chocolate brownies to have in the world. But because it's dates pureed, there's no sugar in it. You know, it's still, you know, it's spiking your [00:23:00]blood sugar a little bit. But, You've got all the other proteins in there of the eggs and the almond flour and coconut oil and they taste amazing.

JO: They're better than anything and the kids will love them and yet they think they're having a treat at the end of the day.

JO: So I might have to

Paula: do that with my 20 year olds.

JO: Yeah.

Paula: So, I mean, again, stress is a factor, right? For

JO: the kids. So,

Paula: I mean, we can't always bring them out of the environment of school. So if they are at school and they're stressed, what are some stress management.

JO: Oh, I mean, I think with all children, it's that breathing part. I, I think stress management for yourself as well is an important part, but being in the right school environment. Yeah. So if your child is at one of the more demanding schools, is it the right school for them?

JO: Yeah. And, you know, we sent Archie to Dover court when we came here, they've been amazing. Yeah. Um, Because they have different pathways. And Archie went into the pathway two. And within a [00:24:00] term, he had moved up a few of the subjects. But within two terms, he was up into the pathway one. Which is the normal pathway.

JO: So it took time to allow your child and to step back. For me, it was that learning curve. I was brought into a family where there was push, push, push. Education, education, education. Having a child with these challenges, stepping back and just going, okay, we want this, him to be happy. That's what we're going to work on.

JO: We don't care about anything else. He will find his path if we give him that

Paula: Environment

JO: to thrive. 

Paula: How

Paula: lovely, because I mean, I guess it's gone leaps and bounds from when we went to school, well I went to where you just didn't have any

Paula: other

Paula: just went into a big school, with lots of kids, and you dealt

Paula: with now, you've got so many amazing options

JO: and strategies. Yeah. And there are some good schools in, you know, Singapore, that, that help support and not to see that as of giving up and, you know, I've, I've got to have them [00:25:00] in the top school because, you know, it's, it's their life experience and their every day, you know, and if they're going into a school environment where they're totally out of not, not fitting in, you know, it's, it's tough on them.

JO: And to get that proper healing. is, is to actually reduce the stress. Yeah. Um, I think in fact there's an amazing homeschool environment in Singapore. Lots of families do it. Yeah. Um, you know, I don't, it's not for everyone. Yeah. And for, for us we were just very lucky because we were in Malaysia and we had this guy who was our neighbour who set up this, this sort of, schooling process, but, you know, just looking for a path that's not going to cause that chronic stress on a daily basis, because that is the key stress.

JO: It's what they're doing all day, every day. Um, so yeah, find the nurturing environment.

Paula: That's nice. Do you have any advice for anyone? Any leaving advice that you'd like 

JO: to um, I would [00:26:00] say, yes, to step back and to see your child as this is, they're part of you and that this is a learning curve for you as much as it is for them.

JO: And to, um, just be open to, to not sticking to that traditional path. Um, and to try for yourself. that gluten free and dairy free diet. If you're finding it too challenging, you know, to reach out,, you know, some doctors,, you can reach out to me and I can give you numbers for certain doctors who are functional medicine practitioners who would, be very supportive if they want to get it covered on insurance and to just really have faith in the fact that, doing this process really makes a massive difference too.

JO: the child and the inflammation and they're not, you know, the kids that have these massive outbursts are not doing it because they want to. It's because [00:27:00] there's something that's not right. And

JO: working

JO: with them to support them will lead to resolution. It's, it's allowing the drop in inflammation

JO: to really support

JO: them.

Paula: So if you want to get in touch with Jo, you'll see her details in our show notes. Also we will tag Jo in all our social media. So don't forget 

JO: in

JO: and follow us there

Paula: as well.

JO: Oh, So in 

Rachel: Thank you so much.

Rachel: You've really been a wealth of information and we really, really enjoyed, hearing all about, your son and, and how you've been able to, to navigate that pathway. I can't imagine how overwhelming it was at the time. Like, it's, uh, yeah, it's tough. I mean, it's tough navigating your own situation, let alone some, a small human that, you know, Isn't communicating well.

Rachel: Like it's impossible just to sort of, yeah. Well done. Yeah. It's amazing. And also that you're helping other [00:28:00] families do that too.

JO: I just, I feel I need to,

Rachel: yeah.

JO: because I just, yeah, really keen for people to see there is a different way and not to be hoodwinked by, you know, the media, especially kids with ADHD, the idea of putting a child on Ritalin, you know, when they're very young is just, you know, you it's, it let, find a more natural path.

JO: Yeah. Allow them to self 

JO: regulate. 

Rachel: regulate. 

Paula: know, go with your gut feeling as a mum, and go out and find out

JO: way. Yeah, totally.

Rachel: Yeah. Find the root cause, like you said, um, rather than just taking a, yeah. Yeah.

Paula: Excellent. 

Paula: Thanks Jo.

Rachel: Thanks Jo. All right. Cheers.