Hi, I'm Paula. And



I'm Rachel.



And today on Truly Expat Podcast, we chat about ageing parents when living abroad. Join us for an insightful episode on navigating the complexities of caring for ageing parents.

We'll be chatting with a panel of expats. Urmila, Layla and Maria, who will share their experiences, challenges and valuable advice on supporting aging parents from afar. Stay tuned for heartfelt stories and practical tips on this important aspect of expat life. Hi ladies, welcome.

Hello.

Hi.  

 Thanks for joining us.

 What are the challenges you face as an expat with ageing parents, particularly in terms of providing care and support from a distance? 

Well, I'm from India. So from Singapore, where we're based now, it's just about 3. 5 to 4 hours.

So

I

think we specifically chose

uh,

We were based in Dubai earlier and we then we moved here and I think primarily we chose to be not too far and a direct flight from home for this reason. 

My mother in law is 90. My parents are a bit younger. They're both in their 70s.  Dad's almost 80, but 

um,

they're getting to that stage where they do need help.  

And uh, 

my husband's quite lucky because he's got family in India who can look well as my  siblings are not in India. 

I'm the

closest, and I think I feel a little more responsible for them for some reason.

So I'm just glad that I'm close enough to get there. 

It's just

a quick flight away, should they require it.  And it has been required last year. 

and  it's, not

easy because when you're trying to tell them to do things that you think they should do, um, on the telephone or, um, you know, organize their life, 

it's their life and they really don't want to be told what they need to do.

So that's definitely an issue until you go back and you sort of overrule everything else and you sort of get it set up for them. Um, Maybe not to their joy in the beginning, but I'm hoping that they'll get used to it over time. Um, well, that's what I felt in this past one year.  Yeah,

I, um, bought both my parents. 

So

I WhatsApp them probably, I don't know, three times a week, every second day, I'd say. And, um, yeah, when I'm home, I go to the doctor with my dad to make sure everything's okay, and that he has all his normal checkups. Mum's still fine, so  she won't let me come to the doctor with her.

But, um, I do, I check on them nearly, yeah, literally every second day if, yeah, to make sure they're, you know, having a good day and taking their medication. And  Yeah, that their well being's fine, basically. 

Well, I'm one of five siblings and when I was overseas, um, with my kids and everything and my, my mum was still around, um, 

I,

didn't have that responsibility cause I've got my older sister kind of took charge cause she had older kids so she kind of was mum's primary  carer, um, so yeah, I haven't really dealt with it.

You know, being away. I mean, Mum used to call and say she missed the kids and that sort of thing, so you feel that guilt.  Um, and I feel that guilt, you know, you felt it with my in laws as well because my background is Greek and family is like, you live next door to each other. Not across the world. And you do not take your grand, the grandchildren away from the

grandparents.

My, actually, it was interesting because when we told them we were moving to Singapore, my son was six months old. And my daughter was nearly three and my other daughter was five. And my father in law actually said to, to us, You guys can go leave the kids

So,

yeah. So, but yeah, now, I mean, I don't have to deal with it now, but I do remember, you know. 

back in the day where they just love making you feel guilty. 

But, but having grandchildren of my own now,  um, yeah, I kind of get it

because I've got

a granddaughter in London and a grandson in Sydney and

Yeah, if

I don't speak to them every second

day, I 

like,

like know,

I have withdrawal symptoms, you know, we FaceTime and I try and get over to London as much as I can and get back to Sydney as much as I can.

So I get it from the other side.

Yeah,  

so my mom is fairly active, but actually it's hard because my husband's  95, but she's still active.

firing on all  

And she gets around and everything like that. But, you know, we, we do go to Sweden quite a lot to visit her. Um, and it's hard because you're here to enjoy the lifestyle and, you know, take your holidays and stuff like that. And  a certain amount of that becomes a burden. We have to go home. And so all of the holidays, and that can be quite tiring.

So you actually need a vacation from that  vacation, you know, going to see everybody and making sure everybody's okay. And even though we love doing that, sometimes we just want to spend some time, you know, doing our own thing. Um, so, um, I mean, being in Singapore is quite good because we're halfway between Sweden and halfway between New Zealand, but yeah, um, you do get a little bit. 

Of the emotional, you know, come on, it's time to come home. You know, I'm home for Christmas. It's always that sort of thing. And it's, and it's sad. And, and then every time you see your parents on the phone, you're like,  what's happened to you? Sorry mom, you look great.

Um, 

Um,

but yeah. What about you, Paula?

Uh, I lost my dad four weeks into our first assignment in Taiwan 17 years ago. So that was a blow because I guess you're abroad and you're like,  guilt, you feel guilty for being away. My mum for like, fortunately, my mum is with us, but she's in a, um, age facility.

She's got dementia and Alzheimer's. So, I mean, I'm blessed to have siblings that live near. So they go and, you know, I'm very, very lucky. My sister does. She's, she's. It's great with all of mum's paperwork and doctors and stuff and my brother goes and sees my mum all the time every week. And my sister and I, we FaceTime mum, well, they FaceTime us once a week so that, that's awesome that I, you know, I get to do that but it, it,  as mum gets worse it honestly is probably the one thing that makes me want to go home more than anything because I know that. 

sounding emotional, Um, 

I know that it's not forever and I know that one day she'll wake up and not know who know who I am. I mean, I'm blessed because I have siblings that are, that allow me the luxury of, of living abroad, but then it's that time spent that, that I haven't been able to spend with mom obviously, 'cause I'm here. 

But in saying that, Mum and Dad lived with us for seven years when we were living in Australia, so I feel very blessed that I had that time with them. And I didn't realise how special it was at the time. All I just knew was, oh my god, do you really have to stick up for my husband all the time? 

LAUGHTER 

But now, you know, it is what it is.

I think it's the hardest part of, one thing, you know, your heart, Tugs, because your children are abroad, but it's also your, your parents that are getting older. So I do get to speak to mum once a, um, a week. And when I'm home, I go visit her often. So, yeah, it's hard. It's very hard.

Do,

do 

you guys find, what I find really hard even now, is that when you want to go on holidays and not go to see your kids or your parents or whatever, do you feel a bit of guilt?

Oh, absolutely. Because it's like, 

like, I actually,

And I was just like does it seem bad

to say no?

well no, because I actually had people say, have people say to me, 

when I recently went to India. Why?  Why are you going to

India? 

Because I want to.

it's a holiday.

Yeah, but why? Why are you spending, yeah, why are you spending 10 days there when you could be spending 10 days with your family?

And it's like, because every holiday is with my family. So it's, you know, and I don't think they realize they do it, but they, it's this expectation that  when he

Waiting just hanging around

waiting to go back and see them. I don't think that they've actually  comprehend that we have a life.

here

And it's our everyday life and, you know, in your everyday life, you plan things like holidays

and you have

other friends and other, you know, and, and that's, yeah.

And, and, you know, getting back to the age parents thing, when we were living overseas for 10 years and the kids were little, we went back to school. Twice a year. We didn't go anywhere else on holidays. We went back to Australia, and I remember once we detoured and went to Port Douglas for five days, and my father in law was mortified because that's five days less for the grandchildren, 

so You know it's it's it's hard.

It's very hard. I

seen two cities or three cities in Sweden, like a whole time. We've been in the same city all the time and I'm like, when are we gonna go to the north and. You know, play around with huskies 

Yeah. 

Uh, but no, it's always in the same town. 

I don't,

is it, I mean, I travel a lot, so I don't,  I think my kids don't, the kids don't, kids are absolutely not bothered that I travel, so they, you know, they don't mind me travelling.

And, and to be fair, this sounds horrible, but mum doesn't really know that I live in Singapore. Like every time, Um, I ring her once every time she rings, she asks me where I'm living and I tell her and then she's surprised. It's just part of the package, right? So don't feel guilty for traveling, but traveling's my work as well.

What strategies have you found helpful in maintaining communication and connection with your aging parents, despite the distance? 

So you mentioned Whatsapp? Like 

Leila,

WhatsApp. I think

WhatsApp is, WhatsApp 

is great.

and

it's great for them. 

because

if it was an expensive thing that they had to pay for, oh god,

I don't know how

my dad would have agreed to that.  So it's good that it's free calls now, so it happens quite regularly. But it doesn't always work for me specifically because my dad's getting hard of hearing, so he just hates coming to the phone.

So I basically called my

mom,

um, who is thankfully in good health, 

to just find out what's going on, and it's so much easier to communicate with her as well. Cause um, he does get a little upset because I think I just step into a caretaker role often when I'm talking to them and then I'm like, well, did you go for this checkup?

Did you go and do that? And that's it. And I think he was quite, um, the leader of the family when he was younger, not just with us as a unit, but with his siblings and, you know, as, as the eldest son. Uh, so I think it makes them very vulnerable when they realize they're getting on in age

and 

they need help and they know they need it,

but

I think they just don't want to face it.

I mean, he's 80, so I think it's about time, but he struggles with that, 

I think makes him very cranky.  But, uh, but I, I think this is something that a lot of us face, uh, 

it, it comes, it, maybe it comes to some people in the 70s or maybe to some in the 90s, but, um, I think we always have one parent who plays up, but that's okay. 

Yeah, I think having them on Facebook and also having like a WhatsApp group with the whole extended family, with the aunties and uncles and grandchildren. Like I always put up if one of my daughters is having an exam or she's in a grand final, so that if any other relatives want to go and See them or That's nice.

Cheer them on, you know, they know what, what's happening and where. And I'm lucky 'cause I've got a big family and my husband's got a big family, so someone always turns up. That's nice. So that's not that, that part's good of having a WhatsApp group, but it gives your parents something to look at. Right.

Because even though they days quite dark, if they can see that someone's,  you know, got an exam over there and someone's doing this and that and the other, or going for their learner's permanent driving or something like that, you know, it gives them something to talk about to their neighbors. And something to look forward to, especially if their

grandkids are taking part in  So, like you, I,

I do it a little

differently. I always encourage them. To go on these little trips. Because I think it's always so important for them to have something to look forward to. Because if they don't, 

they,

they just get  a bit tired.

you know? It's just  uh, life that they're leading. So as long as they know in June I'm going to go here.

Yeah,

I find

that it gives them some sort of energy.

Because their grandkids  that's why.

Do you know what I mean? Like, there's a difference there. They've got, I mean, Leila's family, children are in Australia with the grandparents, but with you, I mean, your grandparents haven't got that  event to look forward to. So traveling is a big, is a good thing,

Absolutely. With, with their siblings or just having someone, I can see when my cousins are in town. Oh, so much 

Yeah. 

And I'm so glad that we have a family that's large enough and close enough that everybody makes that effort for aunts and uncles. 

Yeah, I mean because we were in just, we were in India just recently and your mum had just come back.

Your parents had just come back from a wedding, right? A trip, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nice.

Yeah, I'm the same as Layla, my mother in law had, we got her an Apple iPhone and taught her how to use WhatsApp. So she WhatsApps us, but we're also fortunate because I've got two children living in Sydney and my son's got a baby. So they take the pressure off by going and having, like, she loves having them over for lunch or something on a Sunday.

So they'll try and get there once a month and, You know, they take the baby over and she's, then she has to ring us to tell us how excited she was

that, you

know, the kids went over for lunch and she cooked this and she made that. That's all she wants to do. She just wants to feed everybody and, you know, so that it's really good because it's kind of taken the pressure off. 

Because before that, she'd say things like, uh, when are you coming back? And we're like, oh, you know, we won't be back till, I don't know, let's say Christmas and it's August. Oh, I might not be around at Christmas. So, you know, that's the old Greek, uh, the old Greek guilt.

And also little bit of Indian. But

funny because, you know, as soon as she had great grandchildren, which my daughter, you know, had. My, my granddaughter and then my son had

the

grandson, all of a sudden she doesn't care, you know, whether we're not going to be going back for Christmas in six months or

whatever.

it's, I think they just need distractions, they need to be busy and getting back to what Amilla was saying about her dad getting cranky and so on.

I kind of get it because, you know, you think about it, ageing is really hard and it's almost like a loss of dignity to a certain degree. It's a way to be told. 

you

by your child that you can't do this and I'm going to take care of this. And so it's like, I do get it and I don't know, like, I don't know that our society  And I'm talking about back in Australia now, in Sydney, I'm not sure about India or here. 

There's nothing really set up for the older community. There's nursing homes and aged care facilities, but there's people that don't need that extra care.

but

need socialization,

like, do well here. Yeah. They do really well

yeah, with the way the HD, but yeah, exactly. So, you know, if they, they need purpose. So if they had somewhere to go or, and that's what I find with, with my mother in law, if she's got stuff on, she's fine.

But the minute she doesn't have anything on, she starts thinking about her mortality and what hurts and you're away and you've been away so long and. You know, that sort of thing, and I get it,  but, yeah. 

What

about you  

So mom is

very active and she's She's planning her last hurrah trip or something like that. She's, we're going to Europe

That sounds really horrible. No,

That sounds really horrible. No, no. No, no, it means that you're her last international

Thank you. Not her last 

last hurrah. So she's like But then she said she's gonna go to Ireland for when the rugby is there, and I don't know when that is so

is, so,

yeah,

Maybe I should describe that all she's listening

Um, 

um,

So yeah, I I find that especially with her She's super active, and she does now start to do guilt trip herself Do the Greek

guilt

trip, the Indian Greek guilt trip, uh, you know, when are you guys coming home?

When are you coming? Because you, you only live, you live really close now. You don't live in Europe. You're like, you know, 10 hours away. It's like easy for you to get there. And I'm like, why don't you just come over here and hang out for a couple of months, you know? Anyway, she has commitments, but um, 

um,

I don't have it, but 

but 

does, you know, I just got my dog and everything.

She can't leave that. And the dog. Right. Uh, but anyway, my, uh, yeah, my husband's family are very much into, you know, the guilt trip where, you know, you have to come home, you know, mom might not be here much longer. Cause she is 95.  She's just, she just keeps on going and she's amazing. Um, but. You know, my husband rings her every week.

Um, and they, they don't have a group chat, but, but he will ring her every weekend for sure. And just have a chat with them. And then he talks to, you know, the other sisters and stuff like that. And just keeps up with her progress and everything. Um, but yeah,  that's how we can, but I have seen my mom 

go

hell a lot, uh, when she's like, you say not, she doesn't have the

social 

around 

and she's super social and that was actually interestingly enough That was about five years ago that she did that and she's 75. So it doesn't take much, right? It just takes that like little time away from everybody and you can see the decline really quickly  like now I can I can I know when she's been busy and I know when she hasn't she does get grumpy And if things are just not panning out for her, she gets really frustrated and then suddenly you have to step in and just go, what's going on, mom, you know, and give her something to sort of think about maybe, or yeah, try and help out in some way.

But I think the constant contact is, is huge, even if you can't be there physically. 

Yeah, absolutely.

Correct. 

And to what

you just said

about, 

um, 

you know how just a small

bit of make a change 

found that with

COVID, not just

my parents, but, with different aunts and uncles, 

could see this slow

down.

I don't know whether it was because I didn't go home for two years or  Or whether it's just age catching up, but I could see a big difference

in.

a lot of

people.

No, that's true because no social, no socialization.

So that's they, particularly if they were in aged care facilities or even at home, if people weren't allowed to visit them and they weren't allowed out. I mean, their whole world just got smaller and smaller and smaller. 

Mum

A lot. Yeah. A lot of people after

COVID were affected. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're trying to protect them by isolating them and that's kind of the worst of

thing. Yeah,

mentally. Yeah, absolutely. They're

probably better off to be with family rather than completely up, isolated. 

think

we're blessed now that we have technology to be able to keep in touch, you know.

Like, when we, when I first moved in, you know, the only thing we really had was a telephone. You, you didn't, or  phones anyway. But, there wasn't you know, your Apple phone or you didn't have your smartphone that you could actually call

through.

Or

or even Skype really wasn't that big back then.

So, I mean, now we're blessed.

We can just call them. Very lucky. You can call them on Facebook. You can call them on Instagram. Yeah. You can call them on anything. Yeah. A multitude of

call them on. Exactly.

them

Exactly. Which is, I mean, which is amazing, right? And even when the kids went to boarding school, it was like, there was no excuse not to call me after, like, there's no excuse.

Well, there was always an excuse for my youngest, but we'll get there later. But there's no excuse because, I mean, the technology's there for them. You know?

Yeah.

Which is great.

Do you have any advice for those going through

this situation?

Patience. 

Lots of it.

Yeah.

Um, uh, unlike, Australia, where most of you are from, uh, in India

not all of us

said most, I did say most  from, from, from down under there. 

down about, around there. 

Um, yeah, but in India we still have to go a long way to get some really good care facilities. There, there are some 

but you also want a facility in which, uh, You know, your parents are comfortable. They've been used to a certain kind of lifestyle, or

you know,

the kind of friends and the people they've interacted with.

So it's nice if they sort of could move to a retirement home or something. Those are still few and far between in India.  I think we need to go a little,  you know, I mean, that's one thing that needs to be developed a little more.

Do you have um, community halls and stuff like you do in Singapore? 

Is that

more of a thing in India?

Not really. Oh, okay. In India, family really tends to step in. It's like, I think in most of Asia, you know, children tend to look out for their parents and that's like a cycle. Now, with our generation, we've got our kids all over the world and I think we're on that cusp because we still understand the responsibility of being there your aging parents, but we also understand the responsibility of not  you know, like I don't want to say burdening because if my parents are listening, it's awful.

But you don't want your Children to have that response. I mean, you'd love it if they could come and look after you, but you really don't want to put it onto them,

Right. 

Um, so I think we're in that that what do I say on that cusp generation sort of thing? So I think it's a little tough for us.  Because you don't get this or that, but, but of course, I mean, it's a privilege to be able to look out for your parents, especially since they spent so much time getting you to where,

know, molding you the way you are now. Um, but yeah, that would definitely, this whole thing about the homes that I was discussing, um, it would, I think,  at times be even looked down upon by others that,

Oh, most definitely, yeah. I was going

to

to say that. It's a bit of a cultural Yes, it is, yes.

unless they were in good health and they decided that they want to move into 

like 

a retirement

facility.

Or like

like a village.

Yeah, 

There are

a few, I'm not saying there aren't none. Uh, but I think to find one of, uh, 

right

fit for you, uh, is important because, um, a lot of people as they get older, I think, tend to get a little more

religious  all of that. Um, my parents are a little more,

um,

I don't want 

say 

open minded, but a little more,

um,  relaxed, relaxed

in that, uh, manner. But, uh, so I, I don't think, uh,

Want them to get a

place where they're stuck with, you know, an evening ritual where everybody's gathering for this or whatever. But, but first we have to find a place. And secondly, would my parents be willing to move?

Yeah, that's another question.

See, that's the dilemma, uh, coming from a Greek background. It's looked down upon. It's your responsibility to look after your parent. But the problem is, particularly with dementia and Alzheimer's, they need Proper care and 24 hour care and and I know with my mother I had three young children at the time when I moved back to Australia, and that's when she was diagnosed with dementia and I Wanted to go away on holidays and my sister wanted to go away on holidays at the same time So she went into respite  at a facility, and she actually really enjoyed it because she played bingo.

There were people there every day. Her meals were done. She had her own room, her bathroom. She wanted company. She stepped outside into the common areas. They took them out a couple of times a week. Anyway, she was there for six weeks. And when we went and said, okay, it's time to go home, she didn't want to go home because, and then she came home and she kind of declined because 

had everything there, the

Yeah, like she, she

was by herself. You were taking the bingo.

Yeah, but so, but then because there's five of us, all the friends and relatives were like, when we, mum eventually did move into the care facility. Can't believe you put your mother in a nursing home

And they made up, tried

to make us feel bad, but then she declined where she needed help going to the bathroom and she couldn't bathe herself and and so on.

Um, who was going to do that?

Yeah. 

You know, that's what people don't realize. 

at least

you have the option. I don't think having like good quality care is,  it's available everywhere, everywhere, maybe in the bigger cities, but Not that I've really heard of, but what is gaining

gaining? 

traction in India is, um, where you can sort of sign up sitting, if you're a 

non

descendant Indian and you want some sort of care provided for your parents, you sign up with like an agency and they send someone to You know, because you can do your blood tests

and all that home, so they will take somebody, um, a medical practitioner or whatever it is there to give them checkups

or

take, accompany them for their regular checkups.

So you can pay and get that done.  And I think if you have, if they have one person who is consistently assigned to them, that gets them comfortable. Otherwise, that's not something that they  take to very easily. 

Yeah. No, I mean, my mom, um, she signed up to go into this  assisted living type of place where she bought her, uh, unit and then she was, had her own place and she was very, uh,  Independent and she could just come and go and she knew lots of people there.

So she had like, Um, so it wasn't really a retirement village,

assisted living village. So and then as she progressed They would eventually look after her. Yeah, and that was a really lovely thought and then she decided to sign up for it and then the dog was too noisy and she she wouldn't move in there because the because she'd have to get rid of You

the dog. And

was like, I'm not Like that. 

blame her. I wouldn't either.

yeah. So, but anyway, we, we sorted out something for her. And I was just like, you, you're too young for this. Like she really is. She's very, very,  very busy. Um, so yeah. So there, there is that as well. But she loved it because she knew she had some sort of co age people there to hang out with.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of places in Sydney.

I've noticed when I was there that are being built for over 

Yeah,

And it's

like 

55.

Yeah, but

55, I mean, it's kind of like 55 these days you're in the middle of your

like 35.

yeah, even though my mum was in her over 55s, there was no one under the age of 80.

Yeah, because, like, you

at 55, go and put yourself in

a, you know what

I

I was single and wanted to look

No, 

Maybe if they had an injury or something

I mean, yeah, they're because they

up everywhere and really nice

place, nice locations like by the beach and so on. And it's like, yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, I could, I,

I that

when I'm, I don't know,

80.

Yeah, exactly.  Um, we're going to wrap it up now. So

thank you.

um, everybody for coming today. I really appreciate, uh, listening to tips and advice on aging parents, but I would like to mention if my children are listening,  📍 I'm happy to be a burden.

Yeah, 

and anybody who wants to lend me children, 

I'm

I'm happy to look after them until they

can

smuggle some wine in the retirement home.