Celebrating Singapore: The Thaipusam Experience with Bianca Polak

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Paula: Welcome to another episode of Truly Expat Podcast, the podcast that dives into life, culture and community from an expat perspective. I'm Paula and joining me as always is my co host Rachel. Today we're excited to take you on a journey through Singapore's rich history and culture with our guest Bianca Polak. Today we talk to Bianca about one of the most significant cultural events in Singapore, the Thai Pusam Festival. Bianca takes us through her experience guiding tours during this vibrant Hindu celebration and offers fascinating insights into its traditions.

Paula: Welcome Bianca.

Rachel: Welcome Bianca.

Bianca: Thank you.

Paula: So let's start in the beginning. How did you get to Singapore? Um, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Bianca: I am originally from the Netherlands and I came to Singapore in the year 2000. Um. And I wanted to look for a job, uh, here, uh, in this region. Before that, I was working in a few different parts of [00:01:00] Southeast Asia for about a year and a half. And I decided that I wanted a bit more of that when I was posted back to the Netherlands.

Bianca: So I quit my job in the Netherlands back then. And, um, I came here to look for a job and found one. So I got my employment pass and, uh, that was in the IT industry. So I worked in the IT industry for the last, um, uh, almost 30 years now.

Bianca: Oh, okay.

Rachel: Wow. Interesting. What were your first impressions when you, when you arrived in Singapore? I really

Bianca: love the variety of cultures

Bianca: in Singapore when I arrived.

Bianca: Um, in terms of food and rituals and, you know, all sorts of things that I was fascinated by. So I explored a lot on my own, um,

Bianca: For

Bianca: the different cultures, the Chinese culture, Indian culture, Hindu, uh, the, the Malay culture as well. And, [00:02:00] uh, yeah, it's, it's just a very fascinating place to be, I feel.

Bianca: And also the

Bianca: also the Peranakan culture,

Bianca: which is a mix and match of a little bit of 

Rachel: everything. Yeah.

Paula: Which I guess leads me into the next question of, um, so how did you start, get started like doing tour guiding.

Bianca: So my tour guiding started uh, about 12 years ago when I first came across this place called the Bukit Brown Cemetery.

Bianca: And this is an old Chinese cemetery, that was affected by a new highway they were going to build back in 2011. They announced the plans for the highway. I found out about this place and I was like, how come I don't know that there is this cemetery? Yeah.

Bianca: And you know,

Bianca: I explored quite a lot of parts of Singapore, uh, off the beaten track.

Bianca: And I was like, I've never heard of this cemetery before, so it must be something special. And there were people fighting to keep it.

Bianca: [00:03:00] So

Bianca: I, I went to, um, one of the free guided tours by this, uh, few, few people who were, uh, activists to, to keep the cemetery. So I went on a guided tour and I was amazed by the, the culture that I found there and the nature as well, because, uh, it's no longer, it was no longer used as a cemetery, so there were no new burials, but.

Bianca: There was a very rich culture still there, um, of people doing offerings, uh, doing grave cleaning, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, I came for more free tours and I started coming so often that they started recognizing me and said, yeah, You've been

Bianca: on quite a few of our tours. Do you want to to become a guide yourself? So

Bianca: I became one of the volunteer guides and, um, I started guiding tours at the Bouquet Brown Cemetery and talking about Chinese culture, Chinese history. And also, um, I, I [00:04:00] learned a little bit of Chinese myself. I went, uh, on a six month unpaid leave, uh, in 2002. To go to China and learn, uh, learn the language.

Bianca: Oh, wow. So I can actually read some of the characters on the graves and stuff as well. And, um, yeah, so I, I started, um, doing my own little researches on, uh, history of, of the Chinese and, and also, um, I found myself being very relatable to the Chinese that came here in the first place.

Bianca: For example, um, I, I came here to look for a job. So where did I find a job? I went to the association of, uh, back then it was called Association of Dutch Businessmen. Now it's called a Dutch Cham and that's how I found my job.

Bianca: I went my community of Dutch people to find a job and that's exactly the same thing [00:05:00] they did like hundreds of years ago. So um, yeah, so I can relate to, to how they had these plans and communities and, uh, and subgroups within the communities and, uh, how they came here and found jobs and through their own community. Yeah. So I thought it,

Bianca: it, it, it, it it really fascinated me. Yeah. So I, yeah.

Paula: And what is, can you name one time where it's been a standout, um, to a few or 

Bianca: Um, well, it's hard to name just one standout. I think the other aspect. is also the nature there because it's, it's kind of a secondary rainforest now.

Bianca: It's, you know, it's quite overgrown at some places in the cemetery. So I've seen some amazing wildlife there as well. Um, I've seen, uh, Kingfisher's mating [00:06:00] in the cemetery.

Paula: wow.

Bianca: was, was quite special. That was quite a stand out. seen that. seen that anywhere else.

Paula: different tour, that

Rachel: one. 

Bianca: I don't know what I'm doing. The usual, like lizards and, and, um, uh, the, the, um, monk monkeys, and macaques, yeah. Squirrels, and also they have amazing

Bianca: durians. Oh In the cemetery.

Rachel: Oh, really?

Bianca: Yes.

Paula: And can any, I guess not anyone can just take them. Who, who,

Bianca: You gotta know where to find them. I won't know, I won't even know where to find them.

Bianca: Okay. Even though I'm quite familiar with the place now. Do you

Paula: it? Do you

Paula: eat?

Bianca: I love durian.

Paula: Do you? Okay.

Bianca: Yeah, but it's an acquired taste. It is. Not everyone loves it, so.

Paula: I'm on the fence. Okay. Because I've had. Some that I've liked, and then there's other times where I really hate it.

Bianca: Like,

Paula: I've [00:07:00] been told it's the quality of the

Paula: durian

Paula: that

Paula: causes that experience. So, yeah.

Bianca: Yeah, so these are considered the kampung durians. So kampung is Malay for village. Yeah. So these are like the original durians that grown here. I

Bianca: imagine 

Paula: those trees 

Bianca: They're old,

Bianca: They're old. Yeah. So the tomb keepers are the ones that know where to find them. Ah, so you're friends with the tomb keepers.

Bianca: Of course. And they share it with us. And they have, um, they have bananas and stuff as well, um, and other kind of fruits. Um, so, so the bananas are the red color bananas, which are really nice.

Paula: nice,

Bianca: Yeah.

Bianca: I've They're nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Paula: Um, so

Paula: for those unfamiliar with the festival, which is what we've come to talk

Paula: about, 

Bianca: can

Paula: you just give us a little bit of information, um, about it? 

Bianca: Okay, so, um, for the Thai Poosam Festival, this is a festival [00:08:00] that is, um, Uh, from the originates from the south, south of India in Tam Nadu.

Bianca: the majority of the local Indians here in Singapore, they came from that region.

Rachel: Oh,

Paula: Oh, I didn't know that. Okay.

Bianca: Oh, yeah. That's, that's also the reason why Tamil is one of the official languages of Singapore.

Paula: Mm-hmm . 

Bianca: Um, and not hindi, 

Bianca: uh, 

Bianca: So it's not Hindi, that is the national language, it's Tamil. Because the majority come from that region. That came here, you know, like 100 years ago or something. So they also brought along some of their festivals. So this particular festival is

Bianca: about the god Murugan. um, Murugan, who, defeated a demon. And, uh, after that, uh, they have this festival to commemorate this, uh, this [00:09:00] day that he defeated the demon. And this is on the full moon day of the month of Thai. So the month is called Thai, and that's why it's Thai Pusam.

Paula: Ah, okay,

Rachel: Uhhuh. . So, and when is, is it, it's normally in January, isn't it?

Bianca: It's normally in

Bianca: January

Bianca: or early February.

Rachel: Oh, okay. So it follows the, the, the moon calendar. Mm-hmm . And um.

Bianca: This, uh, 2025, it's going to

Bianca: be the 11th of February. So it's kind of late. Because usually it's end of January. But it depends on the moon cycle. Okay. Yeah. Oh, right. That's interesting. So it it usually also coincides

Bianca: a little bit with chinese New It's around that kind of period. Oh, yes. Yeah. That sense. Fantastic.

Paula: Um, so, okay, so, uh, what does this entail? 

Bianca: So

Bianca: this, this [00:10:00] festival is, um, very spiritual in nature. So the people, um, who are participating in it, uh, the devotees that going through some, uh, hardship, sometimes it is, They have, uh, some, uh, problem, uh, in their family. Maybe one of their family members is, uh, is ill or, um, uh, going through some, problems.

Bianca: So they, they are taking up a physical burden to help, release the problem in their, , family. Wow. So, before they actually go through with this, ceremony, they actually, uh, have a few months before that, that they are abstaining from, uh, for example, eating meat, so they are going full vegetarian.

Bianca: But they also, uh, abstaining from, um, any kind of, like, physical pleasures, et cetera, et cetera. So, so [00:11:00]they really

Rachel: like a purification,

Bianca: Purification.

Bianca: Uh, so they, they

Bianca: are really like mentally and physically prepared for the pain that they're going to endure.

Bianca: So, during the festival itself, they are going to walk from one temple in Little India to another temple in Tank Road, which is near, um, Fort Canning Park, River Valley Road.

Paula: Ah. So that's why I've seen them walk past here in Orchard, like a little bit further down in Orchard. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Bianca: So, um, so what they do is they pierce themselves with spears and, uh, some of them, they, uh, the, they actually do even more. They also put, uh, a carriage behind their back that is hooked onto them with hooks. Like flashhooks,[00:12:00]

Paula: really? 

Bianca: they pull the carriage the whole way around. So that is, that is the, the most, uh, extreme version. Some of them, uh, especially if they are younger boys, um, I've, I've seen some younger boys, they just do some of the piercings.

Bianca: And then they

Bianca: have some limes and stuff on it, and I don't know, some other things.

Bianca: Yeah. Oh my 

Rachel: So, um, do they pre pierce themselves or just in the ceremony? That's the only time that they put these like

Bianca: Only

Bianca: at

Rachel: steel robs ceremony only at the ceremony. So it's being done by, uh, by the temple, by someone who actually knows how to do it properly. I was gonna say, yeah. Okay. So like someone experienced

Paula: not just me randomly 

Bianca: No, no, 

Bianca: no, no not a random person.

Bianca: So it's actually done by one of the priests who, who kind of hooks them up. Wow. Literally.

Paula: Is

Rachel: it, do [00:13:00] they use like a,

Rachel: how do they get it through the skin? Does it go through the muscle or anything like that? It's just skin? I have no idea really how

Paula: how deep it

Bianca: it

Rachel: goes. But some,

Bianca: some are actually like they go in one cheek and they come out the other cheek.

Paula: Oh my 

Rachel: gosh.

Rachel: Um, some goes

Bianca: through the tongue. Some, some just goes through

Bianca: the, through the flesh,

Paula: my 

Bianca: you 

Rachel: know. Oh yeah, so it's just the flesh. Yeah, yeah. But it's, it's, it looks

Bianca: really painful, but I think they are in, in, in. Um, almost a trance when they, when they are ready for it, to get it. So they get, they, they go like early morning, and then they get the 

Bianca: piercings, then 

Bianca: they start the walk to the other temple, where it will be taken off.

Paula: And is it only men?

Bianca: Uh, so that's a very good question. So there are also women, but, uh, I've not seen any women with [00:14:00]piercings. So do women. They do a different ritual, whereby they carry, um, a pot of cow's milk on their head. Yeah. Okay. So they carry the pot of cow's milk from one temple to another temple.

Bianca: But it's the same idea. They still want to do something physical, uh, a physical burden to them to release the

Bianca: on 

Bianca: whatever is happening in their family 

Bianca: helping family member maybe going through cancer or

Bianca: know.

Rachel: Wow. And how young are the boys that do it?

Paula: it? Is there a minimum

Paula: age?

Bianca: age? I guess they

Bianca: have to be, um, minimum 18, I would assume. Okay. But not a hundred percent sure about that. Um, but I've, some boys

Bianca: that look. Quite young to me, like, maybe 20 or something, I don't Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, [00:15:00] yeah, that's some kind of real commitment, isn't it? Yeah. To do that.

Bianca: So they, how many kilometers is that? That must be about 10km or something. Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

Bianca: That's a long 

Paula: In that 

Bianca: a 

Rachel: In the heat. In the heat.

Bianca: So, the other thing that they do during the procession, um, they, they actually, um, Uh, their family members, they will follow them

Bianca: and they will play music and they,

Bianca: you know, maybe wipe their

Bianca: face they get a bit or give water to 

Bianca: drink.

Bianca: Um,

Bianca: and also, uh, along the way,

Bianca: there is

Bianca: also food for

Bianca: people who,

Bianca: um,

Bianca: who want to participate in the, in the walk. So you get

Bianca: like free food. So there's some rice that you can get, uh, with some

Rachel: um, refreshments and stuff. Yeah. Oh wow, that's incredible. Um, I was supposed to go to one year and there was a, uh, lightning storm on.

Rachel: So we were [00:16:00] like, we don't want to go because, like, because it's all metal rods, isn't it? It is, it is. That would be quite scary. Yeah. But they went, they went on and did it anyway, in the rain. Oh wow, yeah. Yeah, in the rain and the, the lightning. Is there

Bianca: a certain

Paula: time of day that they have, like the, does the procession happen,

Paula: the same time every time, or is it depending on the weather, for example?

Bianca: No, they have a, they have a timing, uh, for the starting of the, of the, the, the walk. Mm-hmm . So I think they even start, some of them even start like, um, maybe just after midnight.

Paula: Oh,

Bianca: okay. So like early, early morning.

Paula: so it's cooler, I guess, Imagine

Paula: doing it in the hot middle of the

Bianca: day. Yeah. So they have a time period until when they can start and then they have a time period until when they can finish.

Paula: So it's lots of different people at lots of different times or is it one procession 

Bianca: It's one [00:17:00] procession, but everyone will start at a different, at a different time and probably also at a different pace.

Bianca: Some of them who carry the really heavy ones, um, they will, They will probably take more time to get there, right? 

Paula: And

Paula: on average, how many, is it a lot of people that participate every year? Like, are we saying hundreds, or are we you know,

Bianca: like, I think hundreds. 

Paula: Wow. Yeah.

Rachel: Wow. I had no idea it was that many.

Rachel: Yeah. That's incredible. But of course there's only a few that have the, we call it the kavadi, the carriage that they carry. There's not that

Bianca: many,

Bianca: Um, but yeah, we, I, I uh, probably hundreds who are participating. So some may be the milk pot, some may be carrying,

Bianca: just the

Bianca: piercings.

Bianca: Yeah.

Paula: And do

Paula: they, is it a, do they have to register? Is that what they normally do? Yes. So they know how many

Paula: people

Paula: are going to 

Bianca: Yes,

Bianca: [00:18:00] yes, yes. So the temples, they, they take care of the registration and stuff like that. So you can't just go there and say, Oh, I'm going to do this today, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

Rachel: no, because yeah, you have to prepare for it for three months in advance, that purification process.

Rachel: So it's, and I think it would, it's massive mind

Paula: I was going

Rachel: well. I was gonna say that. Yeah. Like it's preparing your head for it. They probably have to do blessings and. Like the lead up, do they have to Yeah, I think they have special like, um, prayer sessions and stuff like that before the, on the lead up to the festival itself.

Rachel: Yeah, wow. Yeah, no, that's incredible. 

Paula: Can anyone go and watch? Watch is not Can anyone go observe? is a better word. I just feel like

Rachel: watch has

Bianca: a bit

Paula: a bit creepy.

Bianca: Yeah. Anyone can go. Yeah.

Paula: Because is there tours take people and explain this whole 

Bianca: No, so, so the people from the temple, they don't [00:19:00] have time to explain this to anyone. So it's really

Bianca: just

Bianca: you go and, and, and you, you observe it and you, you try to talk maybe to some of the other observers that look maybe more knowledgeable and you can get more information. So that's kind of how I learned a lot about these things.

Bianca: Yeah.

Paula: Because I have, I remember the very first year I came to Singapore and we just saw these random

Rachel: walkers.

Bianca: because

Paula: didn't know anything about it.

Paula: So we just saw this big procession and I remember saying to my husband, what is that? Like there's all these people walking and he's like, I don't know, it must be some holy day. That's how naive But it's very interesting because it's such a big procession. a thing here because we're such a multicultural So what would I expect if I was to attend

Paula: one of,

Paula: like the event and where would I go, like, where, where do I go? Do I just. Is there a specific route that they travel to? So I would just stand on [00:20:00] Is that what it, what you would do as an observer?

Bianca: So what I've done personally as an observer, um, I also like to take photographs.

Bianca: So I, one year I went with my camera and I took leave and I went, because usually it's on a weekday, so I would be working, right? And it's not a

Bianca: public holiday in 

Bianca: in Singapore.

Bianca: Um, funny, funny enough, but I guess they have like, uh, a maximum number of, of, uh, there's only so many pre cultural.

Bianca: Yeah, yeah, yeah. this isn't one of them.

Bianca: So, I would go to the first temple where they start and then just observe there for, for a while and then walk 

Bianca: processions 

Bianca: and then, um, maybe I would take a break halfway and, you know, have

Bianca: some drink and some food. Yeah.

Bianca: then continue walking and then end up at the final temple and then see how they enter there.

Rachel: so where does it, where does it begin, the festival? What's the [00:21:00] name of the temple?

Bianca: Okay, so it starts at the Sri Srinivasa temple

Bianca: at Road and then it ends another temple

Bianca: which is at Tank Road.

Rachel: Yeah, yeah, and near Fort Canning. Near Fort Canning MRT station, yeah.

Bianca: And uh, crossing with the River Valley 

Paula: Yeah, I know where 

Bianca: you are because I

Bianca: walk 

Paula: Um, so, so you're saying as an observer you should just follow the route, or you should just stand on the and watch them 

Bianca: You, you can do either. Um, it depends on how interested you are in it and how much you want to see of it.

Bianca: Yeah. Um, so I'm actually planning to conduct a tour. Okay. On that day. Yeah. Uh, starting from the first temple and then walking to the, the second temple. How With the procession And then, uh, along the way, explain some of the things that we see happening.

Paula: Ah, that would be super

Rachel: Yeah, for sure. And so how do

Paula: people get in touch with [00:22:00] you to be able go

Paula: on your 

Bianca: Um, I can, um,

Bianca: you, you

Bianca: can maybe give them my, uh, my website.

Rachel: Perfect. Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, yeah. And you've got some social media Yeah, yeah. Okay, we'll

Paula: put all that in the show notes for people to contact you if 

Bianca: they're interested 

Paula: the tour.

Paula: Because it sounds very, very know that if I'm Singapore, I'll be going 

Bianca: Okay, great.

Bianca: It'll be

Bianca: And 

Paula: from a respectful point of view, because I obviously it's respectful, um, for those who, um, can't make the tour, is best to just stand on the sideline right word, at the roadside and watch, because I just, just culturally, what is

Paula: the right thing to do from an observer's point of view?

Bianca: I think just stand on the road sign and watch is always fine. Um, and of course if you want to walk along, [00:23:00] uh, I would say make sure you dress modestly. So no like, um, tank tops and stuff like that. Or very short skirts or shorts or whatever. That's good to know. Um, so, so that, you know, you respect the culture as well.

Rachel: Yeah, for sure. What is the most, um, standout moment when you've been to the Thaipoosan Festival? What is the For you. For you, yeah.

Bianca: For me, I think

Bianca: uh,

Bianca: one of the stand out moments was just to see the 

Bianca: dedication

Bianca: of

Bianca: the 

Bianca: people who are the devotees participating in this. Um, I've even seen one man, he was walking on, uh, slippers that had spikes on it,

Bianca: Carrying a carriage behind his back. And I was really [00:24:00] amazed by how he could endure that kind of pain for such a long way.

Rachel: Wow. Is there

Paula: a limit, like is there rulings limit of what they can 

Bianca: No, it's up to the individual. Yeah.

Bianca: interestingly 

Bianca: so interestingly enough, I've been told that in India, in Tamil Nadu, they are not allowed to do some of these things anymore.

Bianca: Really? Yeah.

Paula: They're restricted 

Bianca: of the social security Yeah. So it's only being done like here. And, uh, in, I know in Kuala Lumpur, they do it at the Batu

Bianca: caves.

Bianca: So that's where I've actually first seen this festival when in Kuala Lumpur. was

Bianca: working there in 1998,

Bianca: and, uh,

Bianca: uh I observed the aftermath of it.

Bianca: So I went to the Batu Caves on the weekend, and, [00:25:00] uh, it was my first time there. And I saw all these. like spears and things on the, on the ground and I was like, what is this? And then

Bianca: And then someone told me, oh, we had this festival

Bianca: that's called Thaipusam. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I had no

Bianca: idea what it was and what happened. And then

Bianca: but there they actually climbed the stairs

Bianca: up to the, up

Bianca: my

Bianca: up to the temple

Bianca: in the cave.

Bianca: that temple in the cave is quite 

Bianca: isn't it? Yeah. 

Rachel: Yeah.

Bianca: So that's a different kind of procession, but they climb the stairs, which is also not easy. It's hard enough

Rachel: No, it's not enough

Paula: any, any

Bianca: tissue,

Rachel: yeah. Even with a, like a carriage on the bag? I guess so, yeah. Oh my goodness. I've never actually observed the whole, the procession itself. Wow. In Kuala Lumpur.

Rachel: I've just seen the aftermath because I happened to be there the day after. Yeah. And I had no idea that there was such a festival in the first place. Yeah. No, back then. Yeah. That is incredible. Yeah.

Paula: they must have to take it off. [00:26:00] you wouldn't 

Bianca: I don't know. I guess so.

Bianca: guess 

Rachel: that out.

Bianca: Yeah, I am. I'm interested

Paula: now I'm gonna Google it

Bianca: Alright,

Rachel: Thank you so much for coming and telling us about the Saipu Sciences Festival and we'll put all of your information in the show notes and also Any links that you want from the tour that you're going to host.

Rachel: Yeah, that'll be great. That'll be great. so

Bianca: much

Rachel: Are there any coming on? Yeah. It's been great to have you. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.